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Old Computers [PREV] Not your conventional cassette player..

Discussion in 'Home Audio Gear Chat Area' started by Chris, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

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    I have a peritel modul that I used on TV in the 80's (you can see it between the the ZX and the joystick kempton/cursor modul on the picture with the Aiwa and the Quickshot)... And my LG Led TV still have a peritel input... it works fine (way better than the composit/video out even with the mod)
     
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  2. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    For those of us in Europe wondering what Peritel is it is what people in France call SCART.

    Rather strange given that SCART is an acronym for Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs the French organisation who invented it.

    For those outside Europe who are wondering what SCART is

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

    The separate signals for RGB give a similar picture quality to VGA.
     
  3. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

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    It would been a miracle if we, in france have done something logical :D :D
     
  4. bugpat

    bugpat New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm fond of retro computing too, and own some "computosors"... Like my boomboxes, I love to mod them, like including a divIde inside a Speccy 128+2, or Gotek in Amiga, or sd2iec in C64, or sio2sd in an Atari 65XE, or a rapsberry inside a +2...
    And my favourite of all time is the Speccy 128k+2.
    There is a very active community working on the Speccy, you can see it there : http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/
    Some of my jewels :biggrin: :

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Chris

    Chris Active Member

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    Wow! That's pretty impressive collection. I didn't realise you could put a Raspberry Pi in a Spectrum, I might have to look into doing that.
     
  6. Tenfifteen

    Tenfifteen Member

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    Woooow ! What a collection !! I'm jealous :D There are serious moding here ! My amiga is also Gotek powered, shame you're not closer in France, I have 3 full boxes of fAtari ST floppies I would be happy to give for free !

    [​IMG]
     

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  7. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    That is an impressive collection. I have never known anyone who had an Oric and I don't even recognise the computer at the bottom left.

    The modified Spectrum reminds me of the sort of thing people were doing when mini ITX boards first came out.

    http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/

    It is worth browsing through some of the other projects although many are now over ten years old.
    That explains why your Raspberry Pi is faster than the PC motherboards they were using.
     
  8. lupogtiboy

    lupogtiboy Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a thread revival, sorry about that! This is another one of my passions and something I actively collect! Here is a list of what I have tucked away!

    Nintendo

    NES x6
    SNES x4
    US SNES x1
    Famicom X1
    Super Famicom x1
    Sharp Famicom Twin x1
    Virtuaboy x2
    Gamecube x3 (x1 Silver Jap import)
    Wii x2
    N64 x3 (x1 Pikachu)
    Gameboy mk1 x3
    Gameboy Colour x 3 (x1 Pikachu)
    Gameboy Light (silver Jap import)
    Advance x1
    Advance SP x1
    Advance Mini x1
    DS x1
    DS Lite x1
    3DS x1

    Sega

    Mastersystem 1 x2
    Mastersystem 2 X3
    Mega Drive 1 x3 (x2 Asian red top)
    Mega CD2 x1
    32X x1
    Saturn x2
    Dreamcast x3
    Gamegear x8

    Commodore

    C64 x2
    C64C x3
    Amiga 500 x1
    Amiga 500 + x1
    Amiga 600 x2 (x1 HD)
    Amiga 1200 x2 (x1 Escom with an accelerator card)
    CD32 x1
    Plus 4 x1
    P500 x1 (prototype)
    C128 x2

    Atari

    2600 Woodie x2
    2600 Darth Vader x1
    2600 JR x6
    7800 x1
    520 ST x2
    1040 STe x2
    800 XL x1
    Jaguar x1
    Lynx 2 x1

    Sony

    PS1 x5
    PS2 x9
    PS3 x5
    PSP Original x4
    PS4 x1 (technically not mine but I bought it for my son!)

    Phillips

    CDi x7 (various versions!)
    Video Pac x1

    3DO

    Panasonic FZ-1 x3
    Panasonic FZ-10 x1
    Goldstar x1

    Microsoft

    Xbox x4 (x3 Crystal)
    360 x2 (x1 dead rrod)
    360 Slim x2

    Spectrum

    48K x2
    Plus 2 x2
    Plus 3 x2

    Others

    MB Microvision x1
    MB Vectrex x1
    NEC Turbo Grafx x1 (US Version)
    Amstrad GX4000 x1
    BBC B Micro x1
    Neo Geo Gold X x1
    Neo Geo Pocket x1
    Neo Geo pocket Colour x1
    Bandai Wonderswan Crystal x1
    Fairchild System F x1
    Wattara Supervision x1
    Mattel Intelivision x1

    I have a load of Grandstand-style games too, like Firefox and the likes. Don't ask why I have so many, its mostly due to bootsale finds and sellers that won't split when you see a game you really want. I do plan on thinning some out one day.....(like that's ever gonna happen tho!) I also just like owning the hardware, don't really know why, I just like that side of the collecting game.
     
  9. Ball000

    Ball000 Member

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    Can you elaborate please? :)
     
  10. Mister X

    Mister X Moderator Staff Member

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    That collection must be huge lupogtiboy. About eight years ago there were a few bars that opened up with couches and lounge areas with old-school games, they used to do pretty good business but I don't know if they are still around.
     
  11. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    That is an impressive collection.

    Surprisingly I have two models you don't have

    Sinclair ZX81 (bought from new -in fact in the Sinclair tradition bought before they finished developing it.

    Toshiba HX10 MSX (x2). One was bought from new along with the matching music keyboard and the other at a junk sale.
    For those in the USA MSX were a series of machines from companies like Sony, Toshiba, Philips and Pioneer all made
    to a common specification defined by Microsoft. They were the original platform for games like "Metal Gear" (not that I'm much into games).

    Many computers have gone through my hands, bought at Amateur Radio Rallies, played with and then sold on.

    A few of those which aren't on your list were

    Research Machines 380z
    BT Tonto (both more business orientated)
    Texas TI99-4A (bought new and kept for about 3 months - it was that good)
    Dragon 32 (like a Tandy Color Computer)

    Recently I have noticed there is quite a lot of interest in Retro PC hardware.
    Although things like DosBox can be used to run old PC games many people find it is easier and more authentic to use the hardware they were
    designed to run on like an original Pentium with a Gravis Ultrasound.

    Have a look on Youtube for the 8 bit guy and LGR (alzy Game Reviews) to see what I mean.

    Finally youngsters will be amazed that this was once cutting edge and achieved worldwide fame. IMHO the sound still is

     
  12. Mister X

    Mister X Moderator Staff Member

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    We never had the Japanese Brands over here, I didn't even know they made them, except for some Sonys, until I started getting on the Japanese Websites recently. Once IBM exploded around 82, the clones moved in fast. We had Packard Bell and Compac as the dominant brands with MS-DOS.

    Here's a fun site.
    http://www.computerhistory.org/timeline/
     
  13. lupogtiboy

    lupogtiboy Well-Known Member

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    The Commodore P500 is a 'frankenstein' of C64 and PET computers. It was never meant for release, a few demo systems were sent to shops, but it never got FCC type approval and was ultimately shelved. I bought it at a bootsale, in its box, £4! Bargain! There is one on eBay for £2995! Though to be fair its been on there for ages! I don't personally think its worth anywhere near that amount, but I wouldn't complain if it did sell!

    More info on it here: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/4861/Commodore-P500/

    I've never owned an MSX, I would like one though! The ZX81 seems to fetch decent money these days too, but if I found one for the right price, I'd be tempted.

    I'd love to open up a bar/club/shop where you pay a small fee on entry and you can play to your hearts desire, or rent it out for parties etc...

    I guess I've always had an interest in vintage electronics, there is just something about it that makes it cool and I love owning it. I am planning on maybe (just a maybe at the moment though!) of thinning out a bit of my collection as I do really have far too much. I need to have a massive sort out, keep what I want and sell the rest to buy bigger and better things!
     
  14. Ball000

    Ball000 Member

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    TYVM, I wasn't aware of this P500 :) Very interesting!
     
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  15. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    Lupogtiboy

    I had one of those P500s given to me in the early 1990s before home internet and Ebay. I'm not sure if it worked and with no software or peripherals I scrapped it to get a few parts. Then when I became a regular Ebayer I saw one for about £700. :shrug: People make a big fuss over the stylish case. You live and learn.

    Mister X.

    I reckon there were almost as many different MSX machines as there were Boomboxes.




    However, they were never particularly popular in the UK with the Spectrum, C64 and BBC Micro being the most popular home computers
    Sony sold MSX Hit Bits in their Sony Stores. The Yamaha MSX was sold in Musical instrument shops (as it could do things like edit and sequence their DX7 synth).
    The Toshiba HX10 was by far the most common, although by the time I bought mine it had been reduced to less than half the price of a C64. The matching music keyboard came from Boots (a large chain of Chemist / Beauty stores who also sold records and audio gear). I couldn't resist it when the price was reduced from £249 to £99.

    In contrast when I went to Spain (Majorca) in the mid 1980s MSX were the only computers I saw in the shops.

    PCs didn't take off at all in the UK until the end of the 1980s when Amstrad worked out how to make them for about £500 (by putting most of the chips into one ASIC). Even then they were thought of as a business tool. By then most home users would chose an Amiga or a Atari ST.

    I would be interested to know how many Apple IIs were sold in the UK. My guess would be less than MSX as they were so expensive here.
    Later on Macs were more popular. At work in the early 1990s the engineers like myself had the VAX mainframe and shared HP Vectra PCs while the managers had Macs (with their 9" B&W screens).
     
  16. Mister X

    Mister X Moderator Staff Member

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    Our market in the 80's was Apple Products for home and school (every school had one) and IBM for small (and large) business, and then a ton of smaller computers for home use, mostly Atari, Commodore, Texas Instruments and a few others. In the late 80's it was more Apple for school and design businesses and IBM for small business. The rest were falling away or used mainly for gaming systems. Luckily for Apple they had the education market and the graphic capabilities were far better than MS-DOS so the graphics and design industries used them exclusively. Apple struggled quite a bit in the 90's against the lower-priced IBM Clones but other than those two we really didn't have any other OS's.

    What made the Apple II so invincible was the seven built in expansion slots (which IBM copied). Overnight there was a million options you could buy to plug into the motherboard. The first one most people got was 40 column to 80 column (and uppercase/lowercase).

    I wonder if there were tariffs on the computers, after watching that docudrama on Sinclair and seeing how they picked the education computers without an Apple Product makes me think they were denied entry into their main user base.

    From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_II
    800px-Apple_II_advertisement_Dec_1977_page_2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  17. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    I don't know about Tariffs. They wouldn't explain why the TRS80 and Commodore Pet (both American machines from the same era) were far more popular than the Apple II in the UK (and probably in Europe too). Government policy certainly played a big part in the success of the BBC Micro here with it being the machine that was designed for and subsidised for schools, which rich parents then bought to increase their childrens IQ (my joke but you certainly got that feeling at the time). The Commodore 64 was a huge success being priced between the BBC micro and the Sinclair but being less toy like than the Sinclair.

    Regarding Apple I think it was most likely their policy of charging as much as they possibly could for their products which put them outside of most peoples price range. In contrast just about any family could afford a Sinclair. Interesting that that Apple advert doesn't put any emphasis on the prices. In fact I didn't even spot them glanceing through the first time. Most UK adverts I remember would have had the price as the main feature.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sinclair+spectrum+advert&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=WMwhWl42WLB-EM%3A%2CH0lAx0u0_kzrdM%2C_&usg=__sDbr8P96GWL_EVSkOlgbsQ1S7Wg=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFy8DUsvDZAhVCWsAKHazFAYgQ9QEIKzAA#imgrc=WMwhWl42WLB-EM:

    Consequently I read somewhere that by the mid 1980s the UK had more computers per Capita (people) than any other country. That may have been as Games consoles like the Atari 2600 never really took off being perceived as too expensive for something that wasn't educational.

    Wondering about prices I found the following article which explains it all. To put things into context my starting salary as an Engineer in 1984 was £6800 a year.

    http://www.i-programmer.info/history/machines/109-uk-micros-of-the-1980s.html

    The only thing it doesn't say is that the ARM processor, now used in about 95% of phones including Apple, was originally designed by Acorn for the successor of the BBC Micro, the Archimedes.

    p.s I forgot one other old computer I had. Sharp MZ700. A Z80 based Japanese machine that wasn't an MSX.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  18. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    I was looking through some old adverts at lunchtime and likes this one from Amstrad re-emphasised my point about prices.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...h=728#imgrc=bTG3lZptfnE_uM:&spf=1521223582637

    Shortly before launching their PC they had launched a highly successful machine aimed purely at word processing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PCW

    I didn't realise that they had been sold in the USA

    I think Commodore and Amstrad had a lot in common, both working on the principle that if they halved the profits on each machine they could sell three times as many.
    "Computers for the Masses not the Classes" as Jack Tramiel the founder of Commodore said.

    https://hackaday.com/2016/12/13/computers-for-the-masses-not-the-classes/
     
  19. Mister X

    Mister X Moderator Staff Member

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    It must have been the pricing, I think our 1981 Apple II+ was around $1400.00 USD and it was bare bones with 48K upgrade board and one disc drive.

    I forgot to mention the Radio Shack TRS-80, that was one of the three computers that broke open the market around 78. I think that I-programmer article sums it up, you guys and the Japanese had all these neat little relatively inexpensive machines. There was no huge commercial program library (exception was CP/M?) so standardization wasn't necessary. Our entry-level computers were thought of as game machines by most parents and with the demise of the Atari 2600 in the early 80's nobody wanted to be the geek with a game machine.

    Apple II's were outside of the game machine realm, especially when VisiCalc and WordStar came out, they were still several hundred dollars less than IBMs Entry Machine but could do the same work. In the early days Apple had all the programs written for them, including tons of games. This has flip-flopped during the 90's, Apple was now known as more of a graphics machine and the IBM Clones had millions of programs written for them.

    I never see old computers at the thrifts, I think the internal components are worth more melted down then reselling the computer. I remember three over the last 25 years, an Osborne "Laptop", an Apple II and a little Sinclair ZX81, not good pickins for a collector.
     
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  20. Longman

    Longman Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    I have just watched this video about a very impressive computer collection her in the UK and thought other people who contributed to the thread might enjoy it.

     
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