Hi to all ,I just found this (thanks to my friend John). I wonder what would be the comments for this one on the great topic of the old forum when they were measuring walkmans to find the smallest one. Here is a link with full description and many pictures explaining how it works: http://www.industart.org/winner_one/83/
I dont know whether or not this model is a concept idea or a real one that actually produced BUT it wont work since i don't see a capstan /pinch roller to control the speed of cassette.
very interesting to see the 3 ideas of how control the speed but i still think this is just a concept walkman rather than a practical working one
It is a concept, they had a marketing research survey that seems was very good :https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...ZzD1j_VzJpu3Fhh9mz2DWfzGFVwWHNJOsw/closedform, so it may go to production. There is also a promotional video:
I honestly think it would not work, wow & flutter would be incredibly high: the feedback from the head to the reel would cause a corrective action that passes through several centimetres of tapes before being detected by the head. In other word, due to tape elasticity and mechanical tolerances, the control loop has a delay and it is inherently unstable. Moreover the control loop would not just have to compensate for the different radius of the takeup reel, but also for all its irregularities. Tape transports with a control loop (like the DD walkman) have the feedback directly on the capstan to ensure minimal delay in the control loop and hence maximum stability.
I think the key for this system to work right depends on how the information of the three inputs will be processed .A fairly fast processor and good programming may do the trick. On the YouTube video description is mentioned a prototype, if it exists and they consider to mass produce it I guess they achieved an acceptable performance. It is difficult to accept a tape transport without a capstan and pinch roller, it is synonymous with tape speed stability on the other hand what if I said: how about a vinyl record player without a stylus ? No physical contact with the record ? Well it exists :http://elpj.com/
Actually capstan-less recorders have been already made in the 60's and 70's: they were used as dictation machines were high fidelity is not really important; moreover the Philips minicassette was designed entirely without capstan, but again a voice-only recorder not meant for hi-fi. I think the issue is not the electronics detecting the speed and controlling the reel motion, that is surely very fast. I think the issue is the physics of a plastic tape being pulled by a reel whose speed is adjusted based on feedback from the tape itself. The tape is not rigid, it slightly stretches when pulled and that is an intrinsic delay (or phase shift) in the control loop. That lead to an oscillator, not to a stable tape transport. LP played without a stylus is something already designed and produced in the 90's; it somehow worked even if it required very complex laser pick-up controls. And it lacked the physical cleaning of the stylus in the groove which lead to dirtier records.
I don't see why they dont just put a capstan + pinch roller on it. It wouldn't be that much bigger. To give you an idea, some higher end decks have two capstans and pinch rollers for more stability. The concept does give me hope that someone may decide to build a decent modern day player based on the Sony DD design. And I'd like to encourage any engineers and technicians on here to think about it, because if something like this stupid thing can get attention, imagine what a real cassette player could do.
Ignoring any wow and flutter problems I can see problems with all three proposed approaches: 1. There is no data on the tape which indicates speed. Remember the old joke that Rick Astley was actually Kylie slowed down or was it that Kylie was Rick Astley speeded up. How would the unit know who was who. 2. Might actually work but you would need a clever sensor like the one used in an optical mouse which is actually a miniature camera. Actually if you dismantle a mouse the camera and optics isn't particularly small when compared to a cassette deck head. 3. I don't see how a wheel would reliably grip the tape (which is polished during manufacture) without something to press against. It is called a capstan. You could use it just for sensing but what would be the point. I would be interested to know what the Philips Minicassette did. I would guess (confirmed by Wikipedia) that the tape speed wasn't constant, getting faster as the take up reel enlarged. If all tapes were the same length and thickness that would just about work I have what was an ultra cheap No Fi Thunderbirds style reel to reel that does that trick.
Actually the capstan-less approach works regardless of tape length and thickness provided the take-up reel rpm is standardised. The tape speed changes, but the tape is recorded and played back with the same variable speed resulting in a, more or less, stable pitch. The minicassette has a slow tape speed and the radius difference between an empty hub and a full hub is not so dramatic; as a consequence there is no significant change in the frequency response, but again it was a dictation machine, who cared about hi-fi.
No news about the elbow but I came back to give credit for first mentioning the elbow cassette player in S2G fellow member @jonas : http://stereo2go.org/forums/threads/funny-concept-for-a-new-cassette-player.694/#post-5425 Just missed this one (as probably many more), well done Jonas and welcome back!
even if this thing works, even if it would be available - i don't think it'll be a success: - how would you carry it ? - how would you protect the cassette from dust ?
Probably it won't but it can be done , Kodak to the rescue through Robert E. Whyte, Jr. and Ezra R. Alcudia from California who applied for patent at NOV- 24, 1989 and got it at May 7, 1991. Only problem will need another motor. Very neat, for further reading I have uploaded the patent in pdf.
That Kodak Patent reminded me of this The thing is it is easier to develop a new system like Sony NT compared to trying to do something radical with an existing format like compact cassette.
Most people that show an interest for the elbow probably were thinking: "how cool would be to listen with this that old pile of cassettes that my father has" or imagining the surprised face of their buddies while they try to figure out what it is, nostalgia in high tech gadget wrapping.Personally I really would like to see that other reel moving alone freely in the open air.
I hadn't seen that page. Interesting that these weird devices like this and the Roxblox seem to come from "audiovisual art" people etc. The sort of people who want to reinvent the wheel by removing the centre. When things like the Walkman were launched the designers were experienced in cassette recorders and they based it on a proven mechanism,. I bet the guys at Crossley have far more idea about audio than these dreamers.
