WM-DC2 Capacitor Upgrade?

I've gotten some information on reddit but am now here to look for more information about the fixyouraudio capacitor upgrade I recently did on my WM-DC2.

I had replaced 2 220uF 4V caps with the provided 561uF 2.5V caps and would like to confirm this is an upgrade? The concern being going from 4V to 2.5V. And also that I did replace the correct ones?

After finishing everything there is very low volume and I am looking for the cause of it.

 

Hi,

nobody responded to this so I figured I would.

I'm wondering how this worked out for you?

I'd like to add that there are many online claims and tweaks for our gear, some real… and some not so much.

I'd also like to add that Sony did a lot of R&D when they came out with that line of walkmans, as well as their other lines. In my experience sometimes putting them back to factory specs is the most satisfying sound quality in my opinion. Not to say that some of the modifications are not worthwhile, I have more than one turntable with some tweaks, but I think a cassette deck is a different animal.

I just had a WM-D6C brought back to factory specs by a good tech, and basically all he did was change the belts, and rubber parts and aligned everything, there was not one capacitor out of spec. Incredible sound that gives me 90% of my main full-size cassette deck, and honestly what more can I ask for.

Please let us know how it turned out for you, thanks

 

Known power supply capacitor and other electronics issues are a different story, and I had that done on my pioneer receiver, I got the Delta PCB from Canada. Definitely a good stability upgrade.

 

"I had replaced 2 220uF 4V caps with the provided 561uF 2.5V caps and would like to confirm this is an upgrade? The concern being going from 4V to 2.5V. And also that I did replace the correct ones?"

With my DC-2's, I always recap like for like, using Nichicon Audio gold caps. The above quote could possibly be the root cause.
Also check polarity of any caps you installed.

 

This was already discussed on another thread, but I want to point out some facts:

- those output capacitors operate at 1.35V in circuit (even lower if operated on 1.2V recharghables), so using 2.5V rated capacitors offers more than enough headroom;
- increasing the capacitance from 220μF to 560μF is done in order to have a flat frequency response in the bass area as with the original value there is a sharp rolloff below 100Hz;
Increasing the capacitance will give more bass, but cannot damage anything in any way.
- the upgrade capacitor set is sold by Marian Mihokm (https://fixyouraudio.com/product/sony-wm-dc2-capacitor-upgrade-kit/), which has knowledge in regard to fixing these walkmans
and has invested a lot of time into designing rubber parts, gears and electronic upgrades.
He knows what he's doing (I can confirm this as I work in electronics design myself) and deserves credit for what he does.

It is up to everyone to decide what tweaks they want to do to or not do their devices, however as stated earlier this upgrade is a legit one done by someone who knows what he's doing.
The upgrade is not designed because the old capacitors are leaky or out of spec (I can confirm that most are still within spec, as I measured many myself), but to improve the bass response.

The D6C has a different design, that one has a much better bass response and does not need such an upgrade. Indeed I do confirm capacitors on D6Cs are almost never a problem.
However even the D6C does need electronic adjustments (Dolby levels, REC levels, bias and servo) apart from the mechanical ones and from rubber replacement in order to make it like new again.

 

Thanks for the reply guys.

 

Yes there are many myths that run rampant, one of them is old capacitors should always be replaced because they're dried out etc.
That's something which is not true in the majority of the cases, unless they are leaky of course case in which they will need to be replaced.
I did measure a lot of old capacitors vs new capacitors on the LCR meter (so all parameters measured and at multiple frequencies) and many times the old ones measure as good as new ones or similar.
There are indeed cases where let's say an old 220μF will measure 170μF (176μF is still within the +/-20% tolerance) and will have the ESR increased a bit.
While in such case, it's not a bad idea to replace with new, the difference is going to be minimal (and likely not audible) assuming we use the same value of 220μF.

I found an article with Marian's measurements, but in regard to a different mod: https://fixyouraudio.com/tutorials/...improvement-or-when-megabass-becomes-useless/
I remember there was a page with the measurement before/after replacing the output coupling capacitors with larger ones and also explaining the theory and calculations, but I cannot seem to find it at the moment.
We can do these measurements ourselves and see what the difference is between 220μF and 560μF. There will be a difference, especially with low impedance headphones, but I'm not able to tell how big without measuring.
On the DDII and DDIII doing the BA3304F mod is necessary to make the device sound ok in terms of bass, while the output coupling caps are up to debate and will depend on headphones used.
By "up to debate" I mean it's up to debate if the mod is necessary, not if it does make any difference at all.

I am a measurement guy myself, I don't believe in things that cannot be measured. The output caps I rarely change, hence why I don't have any measurements of before/after at this point in time.
But will post measurements here at a later date when I'll do them for reference. Or if anyone else does it before me, please post the measurements here.

 

I change my post as to not go against the, now I wish I left it up lol.

you definitely know more than I do @Valentin and I'm not that technical, I just read a lot.

You're right about the capacitors, and I recently sent to mono block amplifier's to united radio in Syracuse New York, and they are the factory service center for many different brands.

To my amazement there were three capacitors bad between both amplifiers, and that was in the standby section. I talk to the tech that fixed it, and he said that the capacitors were better than many of the other ones from that era. So there is definitely something to be said about premium capacitors.

i'm glad that you are a measurement guy, because there are so many myths out there that they're not even believable anymore. Much of it is disinformation, from people that keep on tweaking their set ups and hearing things that really aren't there. I might as well say it like it is, because in my opinion everything we here can be measured. Of course I subjectively listen also but yes I want to see it on paper.

My pioneer receiver has a bunch of upgraded capacitors, and the Delta PCB power board from Canada. I know the power board won't make it sound in a different, but I believe it's more stable than the original. I don't know how the stock when would sound, but mine sure sounds sweet.

 

I do read quite a lot myself and have to say that I am surprised how many people are in the subjectivist camp when it comes to audio.

I don't believe in the statement "there are differences that can be heard but cannot be measured", because the human ear is not that sensitive of an instrument as we like to believe
and the truth is quite the opposite: there are many things that can be measured but are completely inaudible to the human ear.
Like for example the difference between a THD of 0.005% and 0.002% or the difference between a wow&flutter of 0.06% WRMS and 0.04% WRMS.
But placebo effect can cause people to "hear" differences that are not there when they pay a lot on equipment in order for them to mentally justify their spendings.
Then reviewers use all kind of fancy language in order to describe differences that, many times, are simply not there.

In regard to electrolytic capcitors, they're far more reliable than most people believe.
I have repaired many electronic devices including (but not limited to) audio equipment (both consumer and professional), test & measurement equipment (oscilloscopes, function generators, etc.)
and I can tell that overall very few faults are related to electrolytic capacitors if I were to do an average.

Yes, there are specific devices with a specific batch of capacitors from a specific brand that always fail like SONY WM-DD10/DD11 or AIWA HS-P202 (but even this AIWA has variations and not all fail).
To me it seems that there was a specific period of time and some specific batches of capacitors that were poorly designed. For example, Nippon ChemiCon caps almost never fail, even 40 year old ones.
And then there are rare situations where some specific capacitor in a circuit fails open or short-circuit (short is extremely rare), but that's the kind of situation where I only replace the faulty one.
Of course there is nothing wrong with replacing caps for the sake of it (assuming one uses good quality ones, not cheap knock-off ones) if one is admitting that it won't make any difference in most cases.

As for what you mention in reagard to power supplies, I can say that in linear power supplies, increasing the value of the filter capacitors can eliminate the mains hum if there is any.
But things like PowerPlant from PSAudio simply do not provide any difference at all and this was proved with measurements done by AudioScienceReview.
Of course things like being more stable, as you mention with the Delta PCB (I'm not familiar with it) are another thing but as you said they won't make audio better.