TEAC W-1200: worth buying?

I have been following the saga around the TEAC W-1200 / AD-850 / Tascam 202MKVII for a while now. I found it surprising that some of the same people who use the words "Black plastic crap" indiscriminately praise TEAC for releasing this deck and even find the price agreeable.

From what I could find, the 2011 TEAC R890R was priced at $350, this was a regular price, not a sale price. It included auto-reverse, Dolby B NR, and Dolby HX Pro. In 2012 it was even temporarily discounted to $150, now that was a good price for an entry-level machine. The present-day W-1200 is priced at $500 in most stores, but there are "open box" versions for $350 on eBay in TEAC's own store. And there is no auto-reverse and no Dolby, but only some half-baked NR that works on playback only and is supposedly compatible with Dolby B.

I would not pay even $150 for it. A used 30-year old machine can still be found on eBay for around $50, so one can buy ten of them for the price of the W-1200. At least one of these machines should be ok, or buy two-three of the same model and build one working machine out of them

 

Nothing against Teac and I am glad that they have put the effort toward a current production cassette deck. That said, I would probably seek a vintage deck for the same money.

 

I was very lucky while waiting belts from Marrs I decided to grab a donor. The largest used Hifi equipment shop had a Nak 480Z for 80 bucks. Sold as play don´t work. I thougt it was perfect. Judge my surprise when I found it to be in great working order. So now i have 2 of them and I can´t stop playing them. It,s like a studio here the other palying and the other recording. Nice to land from the covid.
By the way here in Sweden everybody over 65 MUST take the Astra Seneca vaccin.

 

I made a short video on the topic, but it boils down to the chart below.

Here are some prices for the W-1200 (2019 and onwards on the chart) along with its predecessors W-890R (2012-2013 on the chart) and W-890R MKII (2014-2015 on the chart). The current "sale price" of the W-1200 is the same as the regular prices of the W-890R when it came out. In fact, it was later lowered to $300, and this is for a machine with auto-reverse, Dolby HX Pro and Dolby B NR.

Although it seems that the poor performance/price of the W-1200 did not stop people from grabbing it off eBay store, it is sold out now. But, considering 30-day free return policy, I expect some machines to re-appear as true "open boxes".

 

Not everyone wants the hassle of dealing with a vintage deck, some people want warrantee and something you can still get parts for. TEAC is fulfilling a need for the people that want something brand new.
At least a company is still willing to make a new deck in 2021.

 

I don't think that someone who already has three cassette decks actually needs another one. I can see that a deck that can record two cassettes simultaneously (again, nothing new here, but a nice feature) can be useful for an indie artist recording their own cassettes, but reading comments on Amazon and seeing that the deck fails after 100-150 plays does not make this a cost-effective proposition. Also, I think the whole idea of making new cassettes, blank or recorded, is wrong. This is an old tech that should be enjoyed in its original form, not poorly replicated from junk parts. No one thinks about producing Ford T nowadays because there are DOT regulations. Sadly, there are no regulations about producing BPC, and relying on common sense of the manufacturers and customers proves futile.

 

Earlier this evening I watched VWestlife's latest video which is about the Teac.

It seems the price is somewhat negotiable.

I completely agree with @TooCooL4 's comment above. I think the only alternative for some people would be a fully serviced used deck with a 12 month warrantee.
How many people have a local used HiFi dealer selling such things ?
The Technics deck that I bought on eBay was a disaster which I seem to have made worse trying to fix it and my job is electronics engineering.

The Denon deck i bought more recently was sold with a slight issue but luckily that was a ten minute easy fix (clean an internal switch).
I wonder how many cassette decks have been scrapped over the years due to something really simple like that ?

 

Engineering or repairing? These are different skills. So, on the one hand we have people who want a machine to play their old tapes, on the other hand we have old machines that need service or repair, we have technicians looking for work, and we have a realization that we cannot use the planet's resources endlessly, converting them into junk. So, buying an old deck for $50 and paying, say, $300 to repair is good for environment, for the "small guy", and for the end user who will get possibly cheap but authentic piece of history for the price of a new piece of junk.

 

If they have 3 cassette decks already, this is not aimed at them. Also they would not be buying another deck, well they should not be buying another deck unless they are hoarders.
I have a fully serviced and working Nakamichi CR-7, hence I don’t need a second deck nor would I buy one.

You say there are reports that some have failed after 100 – 150 plays, well that is why buying new with warrantee is good. If it breaks after 100 – 150 plays, you send it back under warrantee. I like to see you send a vintage deck back, saying it failed after 100 – 150 plays I am sure you will get a reply saying it’s 25+ years old what do you expect.

 

Does someone, who has a Nakamichi MR-1, a Denon M24HX and a Tascam 122 need a W-1200? Rhetorical question.

You are a rational person.

You send it back and you get what? I bought a pair of Bluetooth headphones, they broke in 11 months, I asked for free repair, and instead they sent me a new pair. It broke as well, now should I complain again? Will they send me another one? Why do I need three pairs of non-working headphones? At least with old tech one can repair it (well, one needs to find one who can repair it ) and it will continue to work.

 

CDV So you are complaining because you bought something new and it broke, you send it back and got a replacement. Try sending your 25+ year old kit back that you bought off eBay when it breaks after 11 months and see what you get.
You can still buy things you can repair, you just need to do your research. Yes it may cost you a bit more, but at least you can repair it.

Not saying you but a lot of people like to buy cheap things, because they are seduced by price and features they don’t need. Then complain when it does not last, they can’t have it both ways. They either want quality or quantity?

Do research pay good money and you should have kit that last and if it does not, make loads of noise till you are heard.
I never buy junk, I don’t mind paying a bit more if it means I get quality.

 

The problem is that if you spend money repairing something it doesn't increase in value proportionally.
To use @CDV s example above, if you buy something for $50 then spend $300 to repair it it is very unlikely to increase its value to more than $100.
I can see the argument for doing that if it is something really rare, or a family heirloom, but otherwise you would do better spending another
$100 on a different working unit, hopefully getting a demo before you part with the money.

Yesterday I was thinking how all the arguments about repair vs replacement apply to cars.
I have written before how I scrapped a 14 year old car with 99000 miles on the clock. Before something broke in the engine valuation websites were claiming it was only worth £250 so it wasn't even worth taking it to garage for a quote to get it fixed. The fault wasn't for lack of maintenance either. I went through all the receipts and found I had spent over £4000 on that over the previous 13 years.

Sometimes people just want something that works. That has been my situation with cars for a long time, despite enjoying watching various repair videos on Youtube.
This one https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9nbQxpWv/1990-bentley-turbo-r kept everyone but the owner and mechanic amused for months.

 

Well, I just cannot wrap my head around the pricing and the features. There are sensibly priced machines that are complete garbage, and there are half-decent machines that are priced as hi-end equipment. If the TEAC/Tascam deck was sold for the price of Pyle it would make more sense.

In any case, all these machines have specs and features of a boombox, so I don't see why someone who wants a machine to play old tapes or digitize some family recordings should drop $500 (or $300) for one of these instead of getting a cheap walkman.

I made a video, comparing them to my Technics RS-TR333, I think it is from 1992 or 1993. Bought it on eBay about five years ago.

 

@Longman, in your car example, you paid ONLY £4000 in 13 years and you had a running car. If you sold it back then and bought a new one, you would have paid more. New cars are expensive. Of course, emotions often take the upper hand. I bought a used car for $4.5K, then I had a relatively small accident, the body was ok, the subframe was ok, but both airbags deployed (a 2001 car with only two airbags), they pushed out the windshield and destroyed the dashboard. The estimate to repair was about $4K, so I discarded the car and bought another one, at that time I still could find a car in the same price range for about the same price, so I bought a car that twice lower mileage for $6K, made sense to me. Today I would not find a similar car in similar condition for this price, so I would probably have it repaired. But then again, you never know

One thing I know, I don't want to buy an expensive product expecting it to break in a year or two, even if I will be given a free replacement in case it breaks.

 

I didn't say the purchase price which was £8000. The £4000 was for maintenance. So more like £1000 a year.

I do agree that the repair vs replace argument can be difficult. With the car I had before that one, due to a succession of repairs one year, I ended up spending more than the car was worth one year in repairs. However, I then got another three years of trouble free motoring at much lower cost and then sold it it to a woman who got at least another two years from it.

That raises two points relevant to both cars and HiFi;

1. Cosmetic condition. My decision on the car I scrapped was probably influenced by the fact that the lacquer was coming off the bonnet / hood making is look old and messy, and my attempt to rectify this ended up making it look worse (I'm blaming the spray lacquer I used). How many people wouldn't want a Hi-Fi component if it had a few scratches even if it was working perfectly ? That doesn't bother me if the price is right but I'm sure it would some people. A colleague bought a brand new car then made many phone calls complaining to the dealer that he wasn't happy with the paint finish inside the boot / trunk !

2, Convenience. Had I put the car in for repairs I would have had to hire a car for a week or two while it was done. As it was my car broke down on a Friday and I selected then picked up a replacement on Tuesday. With consumer electronics some people aren't prepared to wait, although with my Denon system I bought one on eBay in great condition within a week of deciding I wanted one,

Something we agree on, and the reason I have yet to buy a new car. In the U.K. you can tell the age of a car at a glance from its registration. They had to change the update rate to twice a year because over half the yearly sales were occurring in the same month by people who feel they have to have the registration number.

The £8000 car was an ex Avis rental car 11 months old with about 11000 miles of the clock which had a retail price of about £17000 (although I doubt if Avis paid that).
So by sacrificing the "New Car Smell" and the prestige of buying new I saved more than I paid. I know there are plenty of people (like a colleague) who do keep buying new, despite the fact that they reckon you lose a couple of £Thousand as the wheels drive off the dealers forecourt. Some people probably think the same with HiFi.

 

This is a page from the German DIN 45500 spec regarding Hi-Fi magnetic tape equipment (click for larger size):



This is the TEAC W-1200 and the CD-A580 decks' specs laid over 1992-93 cassette decks' specs. Notice the tolerance is ±4 dB, not ± 3 dB.



Rather pitiful aside of S/N ratio.

I wanted to post a long rant here, but I guess it won't make any difference