Hi there, Currently in the process of refurbishing a TC-D5 Pro ii. My first of the D5 series, and have been really impressed so far! Something I see come up constantly is the use of those tiny plastic washers - either the split green ones or the closed black 'oil washers' (?). There's another kind of tiny washer in these TC-D5's, labeled as a 'felt washer' in the manual, though in reality they appear to be small black nylon washers, a bit thicker than what I've seen with the other two types. Anyway, on to the reason I'm posting.... After removing the flywheel carefully, I found that there were two distinct types of washer on the underside of the flywheel, along the capstan, behind the capstan bearing. Now, looking at the manual, it indicates a third washer at that same spot, that I'm sure was not present in my deck. The unit itself had clearly never been opened up, at least as far as I could tell, not least of which because all factory-applied loctite was still in place across many of the main PCB and chassis scres (not just over the adjustment screw points). I did double check the area, including the top of the FG coil piece, and did not see a third washer stuck anywhere there. Picture for proof From what I could tell based on the manual, something like this is what they refer to as the 'felt' washer - So, I guess I have two questions - 1 - If any experience with the D5 Pro ii, does the set of 2 washers on my capstan look correct, or am I somehow missing the third washer? 2 - More generally, can anyone speak to the mechanics involved with these washers, specifically in this area of the D5? Why the need for 2 (or 3)? Assuming 1 is for reducing friction, perhaps another to block oil migration, but a third? For height maybe? Ultimately I'm looking to get this unit closed back up and on to testing, but first wanted to make sure that I'm not leaving out a washer that may or may not have been included in the first place. If it's needed, I think I have some spares that could work. Thanks as always! John
In my opinion the 2 plastic washers are to set the height and the nylon one is for friction reduction. If a washer would be used to reduce oil migration, that would be on the top of the mech, so it does not contaminate the pinch roller. On the bottom I don't see a purpose for that, quite the opposite, the capstan bushing and the nylon washer need to be oiled. From what I remember, I only saw 2 washers (one plastic and one nylon) in the TC-D5/D5M/D5Pro I have opened. What I think as a theory is maybe SONY replaced the 2 plastic washers with just one that was thicker. That could explain why there are only 2 instead of 3. And there's also that flywheel thust play adjustment screw that can compensate for the height anyway. There is one way to know for sure if there were 3 washers or only 2 (of course, that's assuming the thrust play adjustment has not been tampered with): if the thrust play is correct with the current setup, then it means that's how it's supposed to be. If one washer is missing, that will increase the play considerably and you can feel it by hand. It's ikely that SONY changed the design of this mech over the years (as well as the PCB) and what is shown in the service manual may be a very early version which got ditched over time. Given you already started this thread, I take the opportunity to ask another question: in what condition is the capstan ring of the TC-D5Pro you're refurbishing ? I wanted for a long time to ask for a crowd funding in order to support Marian Mihokm to produce such rings. The last time he posted regarding this was about 2 years ago, when he stated he likely won't sell 50 pcs and that's the reason he did not produce a kit (that would include the other rubber tires, which do need replacement as well in these units). From what I have saw online in the past year, it seems that the TC-D5/D5M/D5Pro is quite a popular unit. What's your opinion on this ? Do you think a crowd funding can succed (as it did with the DD center gear) ? Of course, other members are invited to answer this question as well.
Thanks @Valentin ! In response to the capstan ring, from what I can tell it’s in ‘OK’ shape, but I’d imagine it’s begun to lose some of its properties and that it will continue to do so. I would absolutely purchase a replacement, and more than likely a few as, should a replacement become available, id likely start working on these more than just the one example I have currently. For the rest of the rubber, after changing the belts I attempted to ‘recondition’ the idlers with sandpaper, denatured alcohol and Plasticlene. This seemed to work OK for some of them, but I’m having take up reel problems (started acting up after taking apart the machine) so not sure yet if this is due to old idler rubber or some other issue. Will need to inspect further. I also measured each idler tire (I think 4 in total) and placed an order with a supplier requesting the closest they had to spec, but unfortunately of the ones I ordered, none were a good fit. However…. It pains me to write this, but while testing the mechanism I’d added some leads to extend the reach of the dc-dc converter wires in order to open up the pcb fully. Looking back the converter wasn’t even necessary for running the machine, which makes this even worse. With the pcb pulled open, I believe that the negative and positive added test leads crossed, Bc before I knew it the Play function started running at Fast Forward speed! My guess is that the Servo IC got fried….I’ve ordered IC702 replacements (OG Sony packaging) and pray that the damage was limited to just this chip, and that a replacement will fix the issue. Long story short, I made a careless mistake that I hope hasn’t ruined the unit! Super bummed…
The units I have seen all had the rubber with cracks on the surface and getting hard. The unit I have in my personal collection (a TC-D5M) has been resotred, as much as it could have been done: the idlers were sanded and cleaned with acetone then alcohol. The idlers are usually in restorable form, as the cracks are usually just on the surface and after sanding, the rubber becomes good again (this will depend a lot on how the unit is stored, as rubber will be degraded a lot by heat and UV light). However, the capstan ring in my unit certainly is in need of replacement: it has deeper cracks that do not go away entirely after sanding and the rubber has become hard. This causes the motor to be noisier than it should and could shorthen its life. As of manufacturing the rubber, the capstan ring and the play idler (which is T-shaped) are the most difficult ones to make. The 2 FF/REW ones are square-section and it's possible they're even available as a standard size somewhere. I remember Marian saying the cost of getting rubber manufactured is close to 2000$, including samples, shipping and other additional costs. So that would mean even if the selling price would be $50 (which would already be pretty high), there would need to be at least 40 people making a commitment in order to cover all the costs. Of course, there will be people willing to give more to support the project, but probably not that many. I will make a separate thread in the near future (maybe one on tapeheads.net as well, as Marian seems to be more active there) to see what feedback do I get from members. But honestly, I don't have much hope, as many people don't see the need to replace this rubber as long as the unit works. If you have ideas on how to engage more people in realising the need for replacing those rubber parts, please share them. In my opinion, the TC-D5s are very reliable units and can be brough back to like new condition if the rubber is replaced and electronic adjustments done. What do you mean by "the negative and positive added test leads crossed" ? This can be helpful, so others don't make the same mistake. Stay hopeful about the unit, it can be repaired for sure.
Thanks for the detail @Valentin ! Will think about how best to drum up support for the manufacture of new rubber capstan rings - after digging around in the TC-D5 for the first time over the past week, I'm now interested more than ever in restoring them. As far as my boneheaded move with the test leads - there are two, thicker wires, one black and one yellow, that connect the DC-DC converter to somewhere under the PCB. Prior to "the incident", I'd been cleaning, lubricating etc. with both wires disconnected, as at that point I'd not needed power to the unit. Once I was at the point where I wanted to test Play, Rewind, Fast Forward, etc., in an effort to keep the PCB open and away from the mechanism I alligator clipped a positive and negative test lead that I'd soldered onto the board to the yellow and black wires to extend their length. Those two wires are too short on their own to be able to fully open up the unit. I hadn't realized at the time that the DC-DC converter wasn't even necessary for the mechanism to function, which makes things even more frustrating... With the PCB flipped open, these two test leads, each with a small area of exposed wire, were resting one on top of the other, and so I believe that once I hit Play, and power ran through the board, the two wires shorted together resulting in a fried IC (or maybe two?). I haven't had a chance to do any voltage checks, and I'll be away for all of this week. As mentioned I have a replacement IC 702 (CX069A), since I assumed that it at least had gone bad. Once I'm back I'll attempt to replace, and if the unit still Plays too fast I'll continue through the rest of the components looking for other potential casualties. Now it sounds like you've maybe spent less time with the TC-D5 overall than with other Sony cassette recorders, but based on your general experience I wonder if you have any thoughts about the likelihood of other components / ICs being damaged in addition to this IC 702 Servo Control IC? I'm not even 100% sure that what I've described above would result in what I'm now experiencing (i.e. the machine all of a sudden playing at twice the speed), but it's my best guess based on what I was doing and the sudden occurrence of the fault. Hope that helps others, at least, remember to carefully insulate any test leads in use! John
I feel exactly like you about restoring those TC-D5s, mostly because it's one of the best portable recorders ever made. The only one in the same form factor that has better performace is the Marantz PMD430, but that one has other disadvatages: plasticky construction, permalloy heads, belt driven (although 2 flywheel system), higher noise floor. As I stated in a different thread (I think it was about choosing a recorder for making mixtapes), if I were to choose between those 2 I would choose the SONY without a second thought. I also read on the other forum (tapeheads.net) people trashing TC-D5s for bad capstan rings. It was someone which specialized in these repairs and said that some of them had capstan rings beyong any kind of restoration possible. And the thread I'm talking about is at least a few years old. Now I understand, by test leads you meant alligator clips. I was thinking you soldered wires to that DC-DC converter. Now it is what it is, others will learn from your mistake as well. The 2 wires that you say were accidentaly shorted (yellow and black) go to the stabilizer board (which contains IC801 and a voltage regulator). Given this, it's clear that power goes from the DC-DC converter to that board (3V) and not the other way around (that is why those wires are not needed in order to test the unit). What I'm trying to say is: if the servo got somehow fried, I suspect it's something else that got it fried, not shorting those 2 test leads. Because I cannot see how shorting that 3V rail would make any damage. Maybe one of those wires touched something else on the board... The motor running fast is typical of SONY servo ICs going bad, however I don't want to draw conclusions just yet. Most likely there's nothing else wrong, but note the FG amplifier is a separate IC on this unit.
Got my replacement ICs (Servo and FG Amp) so hoping to start looking at voltages across the board to better identify the issue. Will be gone again in a couple days for another week so we’ll see how far I get before then, otherwise will report findings when I’m back and able to spend more time. Thanks!
