SONY WM-DD series buyer's guide

Discussion in 'Chat Area' started by Valentin, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    Given a trend I have seen going on, I have decided to make a guide for people which have not bought a DD walkman, but are interested to do so. All parts needed to repair these walkmans can be found at https://www.fixyouraudio.com/.

    NOTE 1: WM-DD9, WM-DD1, WM-DD10, WM-DD11, WM-DD22, WM-D6, WM-D6C, TC-D5, TC-D5M, TC-D5Pro, TC-D5Pro II do not use a center gear type mechanism and their problems are different than those mentioned here.
    However, even these will need new rubber, mech lubrication and Dolby adjustments as a minimum. Will do a separate thread covering the D6/D6C as those have a lot of common problems as well.
    Unfortunately new rubber for the TC-D5 and related models is not available at the moment, which from my point of view makes them worth even less, as some have rubber so degraded that's beyond any repair.
    NOTE 2: WM-2 and WM-5 (belt driven) share all of the problems mentioned, with the exception that some early WM-2s (no clear correlation with serial number at this point) have a full plastic center gear that does not break.
    The WM-5 (at least some of them which use CE brand capacitors) also have capacitor leakeage.

    There are a couple of things that you should be aware of before buying:
    1. All DD walkmans have a cracked center gear in 2021. This is a fact, it's not a problem that some units have and other don't. All have this problem and it's the first one that absolutely needs to be adressed.
    It is to be mentioned A LOT of sellers do not tell about this problem, selling the device as in perfect working condition, asking for 400+ euros. Avoid those at all costs, because you will regret your decision later on.
    2. Most DD walkmans will need a new capstan ring as well. Not all sellers and people who repair these replace this part, even when the rubber has cracks. Not replacing this rubber ring will result in increased wear on the motor bearings, as the rubber becomes hard over time.
    Even if rubber is still good, in most cases it will have an indentation mark if walkman was not used for a long time. So replacement will be needed in most cases.
    3. All DD walkmans need a complete relubrication of the mechanism when replacing the center gear. Just replacing the center gear alone is not enough to call such a walkman repaired/refurbished. Not cleaning and lubricating rotating parts will result in increased wear and increased wow&flutter.
    4. Buttons not latching is a common problem on DDs, caused by old grease. Cleaning these parts is recommeneded, even if buttons are working.
    Details here: https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/sony-dd-series-play-ff-rew-buttons-not-latching.7524/
    5. When installing new center gear (https://www.fixyouraudio.com/ version), it is necessary to sand the retaining ring and the gear until the two surfaces become flat. Failing to do this will result in periodic gear noise and increased wow&flutter.
    Details here: https://stereo2go.com/forums/thread...-wobble-problem-and-solution.7387/#post-53936
    6. Bent pinch roller brackets are common on DDs, causing azimuth instability. Something that needs to be checked and adressed if it's a problem. This is a not so obvious problem which many won't even notice if not knowing about it before.
    Details here: https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/wm-dd-azimuth-instability.7590/
    7. Motor position needs to be checked and adjusted if necessary. This influences the wow&flutter figure. Flywheel thrust play also needs to be checked and adjusted if necessary.
    Details here: https://stereo2go.com/forums/thread...tments-applies-to-d6c-tc-d5m.7377/#post-53799
    8. The plastic slider spring must be adjusted by bending it downwards, otherwise the pin holding the spring will break and the unit will not play a tape anymore.
    9. In units without a quartz lock, tape speed must be adjusted with a 3kHz test tape. On units with quartz lock, there is still an adjustment to be done, with the PLL disconnected. Usually it needs to be adjusted to 3090Hz (this adjustement influences wow&flutter).
    10. Dolby levels are always off on these units and need to be adjusted with a 200nWb/m ANSI calibration tape for proper Dolby decoding. Note the DD30 and DD33 Dolby levels are not adjustable, but they are correct on these units.
    11. In some cases, the head may need lapping if pittings are visible in the head gaps area.
    12. Azimuth may need adjustment if the pinch roller bracket was bent or if the lock paint was tampered.
    13. DD1/DD10/DD11/DD22 will need capacitors to be replaced, as they are leaky in all these models.
    14. Volume potentiometer needs to be cleaned to get an operation without crackling sounds.
    15. Sometimes, the small reel gear (attached to supply reel) is broken and must be replaced.

    I think the 15 points are enough to convince you that DD walkmans are not the kind that just work and are in perfect condition after decades from production. This is just not going to happen, no matter how lucky you get.
    There are sellers which buy these cheap and sell them at 2-3 times the price without doing anything on them. I am aware that some of you may have a different opinion about this practice and that's ok.
    That is why I'm not going to say "this is good" or "this is bad", but rather make you aware of the reality. Then it is your choice what to do with your money and how much you want to spend.
    Buying one refurbished is the way to go if you're not confident you can do the repair yourself. But even then, you should look for sellers with positive feedback and prefferably to those who describe what was done to the unit exactly, no just vague statements.
    If you can do the repair yourself, be sure to check all the aspects mentioned in this list and not just replace the center gear.

    In the case you buy with the intention to send it for repair, you should closesly inspect for things like missing screws on the cover. This usually indicate someone without knowledge has opened it before and there is a chance other parts are missing inside.
    Those can be repaired, but the cost will be higher if parts other than new rubber or new gears are needed.

    Of course, last but not least, you should pay significantly less for a unit that is meant to be sent for repair or for repairing it yourself.
    Many sellers do not make a difference between refurbished and as-is, trying to speculate as much as possible, stating the device is working flawlessly (which by this point you should realise it's a gross lie).
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  2. TooCooL4

    TooCooL4 Well-Known Member

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    There are exceptions to every rule, DD9 is one such exception in this case.
     
  3. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    @TooCooL4 I was reffering to the DDs that have a center gear type mechanism. DD9, D6, D6C, TC-D5/TC-D5M/TC-D5Pro are not part of that list, as those do not have center gear so there is nothing to break.

    Post was updated to mention this aspect, as it is important. WM-D6C and TC-D5 are technically DDs, although their model name does not reflect that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  4. Silver965

    Silver965 Well-Known Member

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    thank you @Valentin for the to-do list .... maybe that's why i only have a dd1 ... and i haven't opened it yet
     
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  5. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    I want to give you another example of a seller lying about his listing: The below printscreen is a red DD1 for sale at the equivalent of 180 euros. The walkman is in good to very good cosmetic condition, however the good part ends here.

    1. The seller states the unit is extremely rare and was manufactured in limited edition. Both of these statements are false, it's a model that is relatively common, even in red color (although the red color is indeed rarer than other colors).
    As for the limited edition statement, none of the walkmans in the DD series was a limited edition as far as I know.
    2. It's also to be noted that the DD1/DD10/DD11/DD22 are budget models, not having center gear type mechanism in order to reduce cost, the head and pinch roller mechanism were also simplified a lot.
    Specified wow&flutter on these is higher than the rest of DD range, so the luxury statement seems ridiculous to me.
    3. Seller states the unit has Dolby B and Dolby C, although the pictures clearly show the Dolby button with only ON and OFF position. DC2, DD9 and D6C are the only models from the range which feature Dolby C.
    When sending a message to the seller, he does admit the unit doesn't have Dolby C, meaning he's aware of lying and he is trying to fool people which are not familiar with these systems.
    4. He states the unit "works, but needs to change the rubber strap". When asking details about what he means by that, he admits the unit is actually not working at all, as the capstan and takeup reel are not rotating.
    5. Seller does not mention anything about the leaky capacitor symptoms. When I reveal to him details about all the problems these units have and parts cost, he offers to drop the price to 140 euros. I did not accept the offer.
    However, when asking him to remove the Dolby C and working condition in the description, nothing happens.

    The conclusion that you must draw from this is the following: always research details about a specific device before buying it. Know what features it has, what are the prices and how common or rare they really are.
    Sellers will always state that their devices are extremely rare, making some people think their device is so rare that they won't find another one like it. In my experience, this is never true, even the truly rare walkmans can be found if one is patient enough.
    Another aspect is you need to explain the seller that those devices need to be professionally serviced and the price of one in need of repair cannot be the same as a fully restored one.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
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  6. TooCooL4

    TooCooL4 Well-Known Member

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    Valentin i see rare banded about all the time, I just ignore it as the seller is trying to make the thing look more desirable.
    People should always do their own research, else they get taken for a ride.
     
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  7. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    @TooCooL4 I was not interested to buy that walkman in the first place. But saw the ad as an opportunity to share the info on the forum, so newbies can learn something from it.
    Otherwise, I don't even bother with such listings, because it's clear the seller wants to increase the price artificially. I even proposed to service the unit for him at a discount so he can justify
    the price and of course he refused it, as he doesn't want to pay anything, but wants to get a high price.
    Fortunately, there is plenty of information available on this forum, on tapeheads.net and even outside the forums, so people can do their own reseach quite easily.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
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  8. mclovingr

    mclovingr New Member

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    Very informative Stuff @Valentin. Some people always try to cash in with retro Stuff in demand and unfortunately many pay those prices without researching beforehand.
     
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  9. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    Here I have yet another example: a WM-2 for sale at the equivalent of 120 euros. Seller claims the unit is working flawlessly, however the serial number in his pictures (535 188) indicates a broken center gear.
    The fact that there is no mention about the unit being repaired indicates the seller wants to hide the clicking sound and doesn't consider it a problem. Not to mention the belt is long gone in this device, so it is possible it's actually not working at all.
    In regard to the missing battery cover, a 3D printed one is available (which looks close to original): https://www.ebay.com/itm/133799930041. However the seller should substract the 25$ cost from the price.

    If you find yourself in such a situation, it's best to ask the seller more details like about the clicking sound, if it has been repaired (although in 99.99% of the cases the seller will state this).

    EDIT: It seems there is no clear correlation (at least I can't identify one at this point in time) between serial numbers and type of center gear used. Details here: https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/sony-wm-2.7664/
    This means one should be even more careful when buying this unit, especially when the belt has not been replaced.
    Fortunately there is a simple way to test this (ask seller to do this): turn the takeup reel by hand a couple of full turns. Check for any notchiness in the rotation, indicating a break in the center gear.
    If the clutch slips and you're not able to rotate the center gear (when clutch does not slip, capstan should turn when you rotate takeup reel), it is very likely the center gear is stuck with the broken part engaged with the flywheel. This is an obvious indication of broken center gear.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  10. Emiel

    Emiel Well-Known Member S2G Supporter

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    I did buy a unit with the center gear broken. Although I researched it before, most ‘evidence’ pointed in the direction of a simple belt replacement.
    I still like it because of it’s design influences for the DD line, but I had simply not anticipated the additional costs for the center gear.
     
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  11. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    Here I have another example of a WM-2 (seems there are a lot of these for sale), this time the ad reflecting an honest seller and a really low price (~44 euros). The battery cover is missing (as can be seen in pictures), although not part of the description.
    My opinion is this walkman is worth the price, but you have to add the cost of a new 3D printed battery door (20 euros), a potential new center gear (30 euros) and a new belt (5 euros).
    Seller does not say anything about motor running or not, so a new servo IC may also be needed (10 euros). It can be quickly seen that in a worst case scenario, the cost of parts alone exceeds the cost of the walkman itself.
    However, if you are going to pay someone else to do it, the cost will be significantly higher, so keep that in mind. In a best case scenario, only a new battery door and a new belt will be needed.

    EDIT: I also notice the azimuth screw seems to be tightened all the way (head tilted to the right). The pinch roller bracket must be checked in this case as well, as it could be bent: https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/wm-dd-azimuth-instability.7590/
     

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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  12. tomtom87

    tomtom87 Active Member

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    Good post !
     
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  13. Valentin

    Valentin Well-Known Member

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    Yet another example of a seller that tries to dupe people into thinking his junk WM-DD walkman is something that they will never find again, it's "very rare" and in "working condition".
    Please note he mentions nothing about a broken center gear (the tac-tac sound) or the missing battery cover that can be clearly seen it's missing.

    Price equivalent is ~200 euros. Way too much for a walkman that has the external case in absolute JUNK condition. And way too much for a local market, that's another aspect.
    I bought a better one (was sold for parts) at 10 euros last year, which is in much better condition that this one and I got it to work and kept it in my personal collection, as the cosmetic condition was decent enough.

    This particular unit is rarer than other models, but not really that rare. The device depicted is in my opinion a for-parts only unit.
     

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