Best Portable Sony Discman

Hi,
As I'm still fairly new here, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for the best Sony Discman? There were numerous models and everywhere I go I see people claiming one is better than the other, with the obvious D-555 model being the blatant king. As a simple lover for music and listening in my free time, what would be the best player that offers simple rich sound, portability, affordability, and preferably the classic round shape? There are so many to choose from and hunt for, so any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks, Gavin

 

The short answer is: No! There is no such thing as Discman being relatively cheap, musical, and "classic"(your take, not mine!) round-shaped... Unlike Walkmans where D6C and DC2 are your first choice (and you are set in this dept, I see), with Sony Discmans you have to set your priorities first: the decent-sounding ones have no skip/bump-protection, the ones set for jogging sound like iPod or worse...
My fav in terms of sound are D50MkII and D-250, but as with D555 these are Not too portable. My pen-pal Kaosun of kaosuncd.com says that D10 is the best-sounding Sony, right now I am reviving one to see if its true to my ears.
To confuse you a bit more, the best-sounding And affordable (compared to D250/D555) are from Denon and Technics, and for jogging (as if I do such things!) my fav would be Panasonics from the 90-ies that you can get for under $20

 

d777 is a great contender

 

Instead of creating a new thread I figured I'll share my new video on portable CD players here It occurred to me that the only reason portable - as in, wearable - CD players became possible is a huge drop of RAM prices. And a decade later the continuous improvement in solid-state memory - both short and long-term storage - along with the streaming brought CD players to their death.

 

@CDV - good point, I like your effort! Now shall be waiting for Part II which would explain why these 90-ies plasticky CD spinners sound like "reheated macaroni'n'cheese" compared to the 1st Gen Discmans .
Not really matters to analog-lovers residing at S2G, but I would love to see your take on different DAPs and whether $2k+ A&K sounds any better to your ears than iPhone. My favorite is, unfortunately, the ugliest one ever conceived: Pono Player The only thing which anchors me to sanity about all this is that some folks at Naim Audio chatroom feel the same about Pono. Not really a consolation since being one of them is like being in Chechov's "Ward No.6"

 

I am not interested in pre-1-bit players and I really don't want to start this argument again

I am willing to admit that I don't have good enough ears and I am now willing to spend $2K+ on digital players and DAPs when a $2 DAP works fine for me. I don't use iPhone. As long as there are no pops, clicks, wow & flutter, it is all good. I am easy to please. I even listen to MP3s.

Regarding plasticky disc spinners. There is another kind of argument, which is about the amplifier. Presumably, the SL-CT579 has analog amplifier and is considered a better model, the last good portable player from Panasonic. The SL-CT582 looks exactly the same but has digital amplifier. I have both and I cannot hear any difference. Funny how some people clutch to the smallest bit of analog in a digital world.

 

There are different perspectives to this:

If we are to compare a worst-case-scenario for analog technology (with poor type I cassette, no Dolby, high amplifier noise, high wow&flutter) with a worst-case-scenario CD player or DAP,
in most cases (there can be exceptions of course) the digital will sound better because it won't have those intrinsic problems.
I would argue that for most people a SNR of 70dB (even 50dB if we talk cassettes) or better will be good enough. Same with distorsion: a THD of -70dB or lower will likely sound good enough for the majority of people.
I'm not part of this majority, for me technologies like Dolby C or dbx are amazing for cassettes. Even CDs are not all recorded and mastered equally, so it's more to it than the format itself or the device used to play it.

In reality, the greatest limitation is the music itself in many cases, not the technical limitations of a particular format. I have DAPs that have SNR close to 120dB (which is inaudible), have THD+N figures of -115dB,
but in many cases the songs themselves have a noise floor and distorsion above the capabilities of the player itself. That is why in such cases having a good DAP (or CD player) will not render better music, despite technically it is better.
So if the songs themselves have a SNR of only -70dB, any player that does better than that will sound exactly the same as one with that exact figure hence some people will draw the conclusion no actual benefit exists in high-end gear.

To me, the initial studio recording quality and subsequent mastering (which involves dynamic range compression) is even more important that the quality of the player. Of course, these do matter, but only when the source is very good to begin with.
Of course I love high-end audio devices for many reasons: very good sound quality, very good build quality and a very good overall experience.

 

I agree with both @CDV and @Valentin on this.
Regarding mastering many classic albums were recorded on equipment that while of a decent standard was nowhere near the standard audiophiles think is necessary. The Sony PCM-F1 (basically CD quality recording and playback before CD even existed) was considered to be a step change in recording quality and consequently very popular with recording engineers
https://www.mixonline.com/technology/1981-sony-pcm-f1-digital-recording-processor-377975#:~:text=Sony's PCM-F1 is one such example.&text=Originally designed as a means,digital recording to the masses.
I have a DDA pre-recorded cassette that was probably recorded using one.

More recently the infamous "Loudness Wars" probably did more to degrade peoples perception of CD than any playback equipment.

I wonder if people have watched Techmoan's video on personal CD players

After watching that I decided I had better stock up on Sonys.
I went on eBay and the cheapest working "Buy it Now" Sony CD player at the time was a D-NE005 for £13.50 including postage.

The downsides

• It's big
• The display is very small
• The one I got is a bit scuffed and had signs of battery leakage, but of course that is nothing to do with the actual design.

On the plus side it works, it runs for a decent time on two AA batteries, and I do like the way it sounds. I have a Panasonic SL-SX390 which I don't like the sound of so I wouldn't say all CD players are equal, but have yet to hear a Sony I wasn't happy with.

@CDV (again). More recently I bought a D-E301 like the angular one in your video, which kept tempting me at £9 including postage. Sold as "Working but probably best for Spares" it does work but the CD seems very loose on the hub which can cause problems if it is moved. How is yours ? Does anyone know how to change the hub. I tried a suggestion of trying to prise it off with a butter knife but it seemed very tightly fitted on the motor shaft and wouldn't shift with the amount of force I was prepared to apply.

p.s. The reason for the "Jukebox Classics" CD compilation is that I bought it yesterday in a Charity shop where it was in a "Two for £1" bin. So that is less than 0.5p a track. Thirty years ago I would have happily paid £20 for a CD compilation like this. I have asked before "Can Music get any Cheaper" but I think that was answered by the person who was giving away CDs at a car boot sale last year.

 

I watched his video and I don't agree with him. So, his player shows "low battery" after playing just a couple of discs - but does it continue to play? Size-wise, there is little importance as long as you can fit the player in your handbag or backback - 12cm disc itself is too large to fit into a trousers pocket. If it were 8cm, it would be a different game.

There is no comparison between modern-day cassette walkmans, which are all crap, and CD players, which, when they work, are as good as anything produced in the preceding 40 years.

@Longman, my E307 (same as E301) works fine. I have two of them. Sometimes they skip with ESP off, but turning ESP on usually helps.

 

@Longman Did not know about the PCM-F1, that is an interesting read. As for the loudness wars, those have certainly degraded the CD experience a lot.
I recently purchased a couple of CDs from Red Manor Records (which has closed or will close soon) and was impressed by how much dynamic range is in there compared to the typical CD of the 2000s era.
https://www.redmanorrecords.co.uk/pages/quiet-vinyl-cd-82-mastering-single-speed-quality

I saw Techmoan's video and in my opinion that Ion CD player is pretty much junk. To quote him from another video: "it's something that should go straight to recycling, missing the customer part in between and all the bad experience associated with it".
I remember an AIWA PCD-810BK (which is still available) that seemed a decent new one. Even wanted to buy one at some point, but in the end I didn't.
https://eu-aiwa.com/product/pcd-810bk/

I also agree with @Jorge said in the second post: unfortunately the best sounding Discmans are usually not the most compact or portable. It's enough to think of something like the Technics SL-XP5 for example, with its huge battery pack.

 

From what I have read the CD was based on the PCM-F1 electronics and a miniaturised version of Philips Laserdisc.
Doing some Googling I found an interesting review which contains many of the Analogue vs Digital arguments that continue today
https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-pcm-f1-digital-audio-converter

and a Sony sales brochure
https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-f1.htm

Of course it was superseded by systems like ADAT. 8 track Digital recording on SVHS tape, with the ability to synchronise machines if you wanted more tracks.
http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/alesis-adat/9503

 

@CDV - no, reheating old discussion was not my intention. I wanted to see your take on D-303 or D-515 vs. later models. But you've answered my Q and I must say that it is the first time ever I agree mostly with @CDV on the subject. Most of the time I also do not care if it is a car stereo, bbox, Walkman, iPhone, or TT. All my expensive audio-toys are for the sake of so-called 'classical' and some jazz.

I have a few of these in my trash/organ donors box. Changing or fixing CD platter is a 2-min or 15-min job, depending on how thorough you want to be.
15-min fix first
Four screws from the bottom plate opens it. One flexboard and three multicolor connectors release CD mechanism:


two more screws and spindle motor gets out. Do not forget to find plastic shim of the same thickness as the gap between the platter and the motor:


use TWO dinner knives (I used flat screwdrivers) from opposite sides to pop up the platter off the motor shaft:


NOW you can oil the motor and install new platter

OR, and this is a 2-min fix which does NOT require all those extra steps from above, you can fix defective platter:

two plastic pieces of the platter are press-fit together, with a drop of glue which does nothing. Separate them. Silicone ring got dented in three points where it touches steel balls. Just re-set it at a different position. If one of the decorative flaps got broken, break off the other two. You do not need an effect of an unbalanced centrifuge here:


You should check that everything works before closing the shell, just press Lid Switch before you hit PLAY:


This one goes back into my trash box, but if you intend to play yours then put a drop of Epoxy, CA glue, or at least enamel/lacquer paint on the motor shaft. It won't hold anything but at least you will know if/when the platter gets pushed in

 

Thanks for the useful illustrated guide @Jorge I previously got as far as removing the motor but was worried about the amount of force needed to remove the hub. I think I will try the 2 minute fix. I didn't know how the hub was made and couldn't understand why the CD was so loose.

In later models the design is completely different with plastic claws rather than ball bearings. My original plan was to fit the hub from one of those. as I have one which is spares only due to a battery leak. In fact I also have numerous dead laptop drives. Do you know if the hubs from those are interchangeable ?

 

@Longman - Yes, it took some efforts to get platter off the motor shaft. Not as much as with metal hubs used in D-90 etc, but surprisingly serious considering its just plastic. And Yes, all-metal platter off HP CDRW drive beautified my D-33 once
Should you go for it, put a new motor. One of my D-E301 plays only at an angle, meaning that motor is worn out

 

Silicone ring instead of metal springs is definitely not high-end design with long-term reliability in mind. @Jorge, overall, what do you think about D301/D307 mechanics? Does the mechanism have a name?

 

Maybe they had serious precog skills and knew that CD will be dead in a few years

It is not bad, sounds better to my ears than later Discmans without any rubber grommets for the laser, the ones relying exclusively on digital buffering
It is DAX-11, photo shows the lineage from KSS-330 (Left) to KSS-331 to DAX-11 (D-E301 and D-191 on the Right). Look very similar, even color-coding is the same, but not interchangeable with KSS-330/331 - flexboards different

 

Thanks, this is an awesome picture! I googled a service manual for the DE301, which I should have done at the first place. It says, optical pickup: DAX-11A, CD mechanism: CDM-2411AAA, and then under models using similar mechanism it says "new". Although I've seen it with walkmans, often it would say "new", but in reality it is just a teeny-tiny variation of a previous mechanism.

On a different note: are the Japanese left-handed? Yeah, stupid question, but looking at the mechanism arrangement one may think they are lefties. Maybe they did not think about it when they made a mechanism for players that were not portable in true sense, that were meant to be carried from one place to another, placed on a horizontal surface and then operated like a mini record player. But when I try to put a CD while holding a player in hands, I hold it in my palm, opened. Where do I put my thumb? Right on the laser! This get worse with smaller round players. Definitely something they did not think about. I would prefer the sled to be on the right side.