I won a Crown 850 off someone in Germany. He has good feedback, and he responded to me saying the box was 100% ok. But here's the thing: In his somewhat blurry photos it looked like it had a glass tape door. I didn't give it much thought. But after winning the auction I happened to see a photo of someone else's Crown 850, with a solid metal tape door. So now I realize, the door on his box isn't glass, it's just plain MISSING.

Now, I realize it's my responsibility to know what a Crown 850 should look like before I bid, but I specifically asked him are there any defects, and he said 100% OK. I'm leaning towards not paying, and taking the "unpaid item" hit on my record.

I'm trying to resolve it with him, but his English is poor and I don't know if he really understands me. Anyone here fluent in German? If so, could I send you a few sentences and have you re-write them in German and send it back to me? Should only take a couple of minutes.

You could ask him this question:

Ist die Kassettentür unversehrt oder abwesend?

Is the cassette door intact or missing?

Theres plenty of german members here including jens . . I'm sure someone will help.

It a hard predicament you are in , some people dont sell radios for a living and have no idea how particular we are when it comes to condition etc etc . . It could be he has no idea what it should or shouldnt look like .

Then others will be out there trying to rip you off . . get one of our nice german sellers to check the original listing also . .

quote:

Originally posted by Fatdog:
You could ask him this question:

Ist die Kassettentür unversehrt oder abwesend?

Is the cassette door intact or missing?

I asked him that this morning....His response:

Hello! I do not point whether the mead valley door must be there or not. I have so got him as he is on the photo.

I agree with ol royal, goodluck on whateaver you dicide man.

chuck up the link to the auction if possibe

He's basically saying "What you see is what you get".

The question is, what do you see? A link to the auction would be good, then we can also see what you're talking about.

reli --the door 'should be' about 70% brushed aluminum --with a 2 1/2 x 1 inch clear plexi window

crown 850 pic

Here it is, it's the guy who always lists a bunch of boxes. He puts the exact same description in every auction (which is to say "not much"), and that's why I emailed him and asked if there were any defects. He said it was 100% ok.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300252153877

That's definitely missing the door.

yeah looks like its missing

sorry to say this , but to me it's clear from the pictures it has the front of the cassette door missing . . now i know sometimes when you are salivating over a box it's hard to notice stuff , but it is pictured . .

also not being able to read the description 100% can get you in trouble . . sorry

I thought sellers couldn't leave negative feedback, agree with fatdog its missing the door, dont buy at that price. the only thing in your fave the seller said it was 100 percent wich it is not.

Man, that's real slick how the seller took close-up shots of everything but the cassette door!

It's gonna sound kinda foul, but it is what it is... You played yourself.

If you asked before the auction ended if there were any defects, and the seller wrote that it was 100% OK, but it's not, you're home free. He lied!

100% translation of the auction-text for further investigation:

CROWN CSC 850 L about 6,5 kg heavy.( do not know how to put kilograms to lbs )
Measurements: 59 x 36 x 15 cm
Ghettoblaster from the 80's
Radio and tapedeck fully working
mp3 connection possible ( he refers to the Line-In )
works on batteries and powercord
Signs of usage can be seen on the pics
( that may be the important point here )

private sale..no guarantee and return.


As far as i can tell this seller is one of the better german sellers.he allways has good boxes.
his descriptions may not be the longest but most of the time they are on point.


Due to the fact he wrote, that the condition of the unit can be seen in the pics it might be your fault about the missing tape-door.

But on the other side..if you find a tape-door for this unit you have one of the best mid-sized units!

I will contact the seller and tell the situation and will also translate his reply.

Best regards

quote:

Originally posted by MONOLITHIC:
Man, that's real slick how the seller took close-up shots of everything but the cassette door!

It's gonna sound kinda foul, but it is what it is... You played yourself.

Yes, it definitely isn't there as has been stated. The interesting thing is whether you asked if it was '100% working' or whether it was '100% complete'. I know it seems pedantic, but before opening any kind of legal proceedings through eBay, or leaving negative feedback, you may want to check how exactly you worded your question.

He does say in the auction it is 100% working. Whether this statement should include the door is the question! If it still works fully without the cassette door, then...

Good luck anyway.

Yep, just that one far-away shot.

But even from that far away, you can see the cassette heads and rollers...

Finding a cassette door for one of those is probably going to be pretty tough.....I don't see "Crown" listed as one of the brands stocked by the bigger parts wholesalers. Also, who knows whether re-installing the door would be easy or difficult. It might be missing certain intenal hinges etc.

My question to him was this:
"Hello, I am interested in the following items: Universum 16000, Crown 850, and Crown 950. But I would like some information about their condition. Have you personally used each of these boomboxes? Are there any defects? Do all of the controls work correctly? Is the sound quality good? Is there any static? Are they 240V only, or universal voltage?"


His response:

Hello! Crown 850 - 100% OK. 220V + 13,5V (Net part).
Crown 950 - 100% OK. 220V + 12V (Net part).
Universum 16000 -100% OK. 220V + 12V (Net part).
Thank you.


Granted, his response was vague so I should have known better, but frankly I didn't think $225 was too much to pay for that box, so I decided to take the risk given his reputation. Had I known it was missing the door I wouldn't have bid.

quote:

Originally posted by Reli:
Finding a cassette door for one of those is probably going to be pretty tough.....I don't see "Crown" listed as one of the brands stocked by the bigger parts wholesalers. Also, who knows whether re-installing the door would be easy or difficult. It might be missing certain intenal hinges etc.

I guess you better start askin' for that door right now. http://stereo2go.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/6576054064

quote:

Originally posted by Reli:
His response:

Hello! Crown 850 - 100% OK. 220V + 13,5V (Net part).

From that response, I would have taken it that he was referring to the operating condition only - but that's just me.

some s2g member thief -- just posted one --

see our sales forum.

Reli, to be of any help i just took my 850 apart to have a look for you.

The tape-door is a pretty simple thing on these units.It is mounted with one screw.The rest just matches with the internal parts.

It looks like if a door breaks off that it wont affect any internal damage.

so if you could find an complete intact door it should be a very very simple fix.

I took some pics and will add them soon.

KS -- you are always a great help to everybody , including me.

mighty powerful avitar , you have there

-------
and reli -- this box sounds great - even if it takes a yesr to find the door.

The unfortunate fact is that some sellers feel, once they show a picture (often a bad picture), they're under no obligation to spell out in words what's right and wrong with their items. You're supposed to see that yourself.

So, maybe the seller hasn't told you an outright lie, but he's conveniently left you to figure out certain things for yourself. Like what "100% working" means. Used car dealers do it all the time. They mince words. They let you discover things for yourself. In this case, the seller may well have told the truth. He just didn't tell the "whole truth." The church calls it a "sin of omission" rather than a "sin of commission."

EBay may still hold you to your bid, but I say, go ahead and explain the situation and see what happens. Someone at eBay might just side with you by deciding that defects in items should be described in detail, especially when a bidder asks about them. It's not enough for the seller just to take a picture of an item and say, "See the signs of usage."

Ok, the pics.

unfortunately bad quality and very bad lightning as it is 00:00 around here and the light in my room isn't the best, same with my camera.

I edited them in colour and lightning so that someone could see what i mean

first off the door in funky colours:



the red circles show the 3 points where the door actually mounts with something.
the upper left point doesn't even mount into any internal part..it just leads the way for opening the intact door.
the other point on the left mounts to a small hole in the internal parts shown in the next pictures.
the point on the right mounts into a small/thin metal-plate that is mounted with a screw ( in another pic)

The small/thin metalplate, mounted with a screw that holds the right point shown in pic 1:



hella it's dusty in there..needs a good clean again

The point where the other real match happens with the lower left point:



The small hole and the whole area around looks very strong so that i cant imagine that these would crack when the door-plastic is broken off.

I hope you get the idea.

All in all, it took me about 20 seconds to open the box, 5 seconds to check the mechainism and around another 5 to take off the door.
re-installing was about the same time.

so really an easy fix

WHOAH....thanks KS for the fast inspection.....Seems like an easy fix, but considering the seller's lack of forthrightness, I'm wondering if OTHER things may be wrong I mean, almost $300 after shipping is reasonable considering that box is a personal grail of mine, but that's assuming there aren't any other problems

no problem reli

well the seller itself seems to be thrustful.Ok he may lied about the door , or he just simply did not understand..or he did not want to.

At least i would trust when he says the it's 100% working.This guy must be a collector as he is selling around 5 boxes per week since some months.

So nearly all his positive feedback is about boomboxes and transistor-radios that were as described.( including a lot of non-german customers )

If there is something else wrong with the unit you really could start a claim.

and honestly, thinking about the price and the "might be" condition is a thing that has to be thought of before buying it.
Even in the situation with the door, since it is not clear yet if he did that with full knowledge.

By the way, is the door plastic or metal? And is it just one piece, or does it have a front piece and a back piece? I thought most doors have a second part that actually holds the cassette.

the complete door is plastic.The metal-part is just thin aluminium glued on the rest

so that makes a complete plastic one-piece mechanism that holds the tape with glued on alu for the look and style.

quote:

Originally posted by redbenjoe:
KS -- you are always a great help to everybody , including me.

mighty powerful avitar , you have there

-------
and reli -- this box sounds great - even if it takes a yesr to find the door.

Ok Reli..Upon further investigation i do have good/better news for you.

I went to the original auction and looked to the xxl-pics with my 850 right next to my laptop.

It seems that only the thin Alu-plate frim the whole door-mechanism is missing!!Im 90% sure that this is the case, as even if he did not provide any close-ups of the tape-area you can clearly see some door-ish plastic on other shots of the VU-section which can't be from any tape or the grey casing.

so it will be even easier to fix it and use it in the first instance!

Oh and of course this might be an explanation why the seller did not mentioned it in any way..maybe he simply doesn't knew that there is a alu-plate on the tape-door.( of course it looks rather strange having only the pure plastic door without the thin plate glued on )

Conspiracy theory: Kid Sensation IS the seller

Seriously though, are you saying that the plastic door itself is transparent/clear? That seems very unusual. Most doors I've seen are made of solid-colored (typically gray) plastic.

Oh well if i would be the seller i'd probably never had sold all these great boxes lilasonne did in the last months

But yes, the door is transparent-clear.
Example:
When you have the alu-plate on you still have a small window to look through to the tape.This is a part of the whole plastic mechanism.

Everything in the door is transparent/clear plastic without the thin alu-plate.

But you will never get me to rip off the plate from my door to show you how it looks without

I know some boxes that featured transparent doors and glued on plates to make the look.
(eg the Palladium, upper right, in my avatar..same thing like the 850..glued on thin alu-plates to make the look )

Easy ask the seller for a pick with the door open, sure looks like a missing door to me, but then im nearly blind .

On the bigger pic Jens provided you can clearly see that there is far more clear/transparent plastic in the tape-door-hole-section of the outer casing than a reel-tape could fill.

If there wont be the mechanism you could only see the grey casing and the black inner parts.

especially viewable at the left of the reel-tape, when you compare that end with the other.

Yep im pretty sure that the mechanism is there and just missing the thin alu-plate.

Edit: to hell with it..im going to strip mine down another time to get better pics.

here we go..

deck still in place, opened:


(you can see the transparent plastic)

upper view:



the naked crown without complete door:


(even here i see first differences to the one you bought..it must have the mechanism!)

a bit away:


(again..only tape seenable..no other transparent plastic as the body is grey)

with door in front:



another shot of the door:


(everything clear plastic..nothing grey.alu-plate only glued on the full transparent tapedoor-body)

for the comparism:



(red circles mark the sections with transparent plastic that can't be the tape!)

I emailed him again, but he takes forever to respond. He could be a lot more successful on Ebay if he tried a little harder. Several of his auctions have ended on the low side. If he just provided better descriptions and took better pictures, more people would bid. Maybe he's not the real owner, or maybe he's so rich he doesn't care.

KS I think you're right, look at this pic from Ebay -- there's clearly "something" there. If the door was missing, the top of the tape opening would be completely smooth.

That was the pic that started me thinking!!

It must be the tape-door as the reel is inside the outer casing.

At the point you see in the pic there is only the door.

I'd say still go for it..the thin alu-plate or at least a scrapper door with one will pop up

or you could spray the front clear door silver. It wouldn't notice if a replacement front plate turned up...