i know that those who are in contact with me are waiting for a long post on Sanyos. actually i am working on it, and it shouldn't take too long before i complete it. since of late there's been a lot of talking about certain JVC grail, however, today i decided to go for a different post. to clarify matters and demistify misguided assumptions, so to speak. hope you'll enjoy it.

* * *

having absolutely no idea of how boxes work -- i read somewhere that they run on electricity, but here's where all my knowledge ends -- i couldn't keep my collection in working order without the helping hand of an expert. for a guy who still rejoices in the animistic belief that music is produced through magic (and music from a box is re-produced through second-degree magic), i am extremely lucky to know a tech who is not only an expert: he's also an enthusiast and friendly chap. one that has repeatedly saved from oblivion fine units in dire straits and, more than that, has endured my blissful ignorance in conversations on the subject with almost zen buddhist patience.

he started working in the good old days, so nowadays he's the best of the bunch among those who still do this job near where i live. he calls me his serial customer and as you can imagine we have endless discussions on the merits and faults of the units which every other week pass through his hands. he has resigned to the fact that i am a Sanyo freak, so usually he doesn't argue on the quality of the brand --especially of the early top units. once he told me that they're built differently than most boxes, meaning that their components are good and well assembled. like everybody, however, he's not perfect. indeed, despite his prowess, he cannot bring himself to accept the simple truth that Sanyos are the best boxes around. for some inexplicable reason, he insists that top JVCs are better!

now i have the uttermost respect for JVC, which i am ready to admit is a quality brand. and i am also ready to accept that, like tech says, the Japan Victor Company has built among the most balanced boxes he has ever seen. it goes without saying that i blindly accept his word because i have no technical counter-argument; but i suspect that his word is somewhat biased. whatever: seeing is believing, isn't it? so, in order to give a fair assessment of tech's misguided perspective, i decided to get myself four units of this classic brand. i thought that a poker of JVCs should be sufficient to prove if tech is right or wrong!

as some of you maybe remember, my first JVC was the beautiful & undoubtedly desirable

JVC RC 550 S

i cannot deny that this gorgeous box has many trumps on its side: it's black, it has unique shape & design, and sounds great for being a mono. but: radio has no FM band, the box is missing both phono and line in... what's all the fuss about this so called grail? yes, i love the giant woofer, and do not deny a certain fascination for the directional microphone... but can tech seriously maintan that the former is better than the Big Ben's, the latter than the external mics of the M9998?

being not completely satisfied with this unit, i looked for another piece that shouldn't be missed by any serious collector, i read on a professional site that for love of peace i don't mention here  so after careful search in flea markets and similar abysmal places of perdition attended by momomaniac audio addicts, i got myself a second JVC; to wit, the elegant and classically shaped

JVC RC 838 L

the VU meters of this box are are certainly magnificent. and i must admit that this classic street box looks good also at home, besides the fact that it sounds great. but... what's that weird biphonic option? a mono that is not a mono, like a zen's door without a door? a mono-wide? a pseudo-stereo? and talking about doors: really JVC designers couldn't do any better than ripping the tape door from the 550 and pasting it onto the 838?

having failed for a second time to prove tech's bizarre theory, i went for bigger game and with a stroke of good luck i bagged myself for peanuts the much sought after

JVC RC M70 JW

now i have to admit that this box sounds loud and clear, and that his classical look is one of the most iconic of the 80s. i have seen it in pics, lp covers, videoclips, not to mention so many s2go posts! it seems also the perfect box for going outdoor. last but not least, it has a lot of bells and whistles. but... leaving aside a look that for some reason fails to put my imagination on fire, it sounds too cold for my taste. not only many of my Sanyos, but also many of my Aiwas sound, if not louder, undoubtedly warmer and more pleasant. so again, what's all the fuss about this unit?

if the proof of the pudding is in the eating, i reasoned, the only way to prove that tech's theory is ill-founded was to find a box impregnable to sternest criticism. hence, i literally stole the very flagship of the brand (you wouldn't believe how much -- or rather how less! -- i paid for it. who says these units are nowhere to be found in the wild is wrong!). should i add more? my fourth JVC was no less than the super wanted, ever searched

JVC RC M90 L

tech was in awe when he fully serviced it and couldn't believe me when i objected that my great expectations had been somewhat disappointed. how? undoubtedly, this box looks and sounds better than the m70, with warmer and deeper bass and a better quality of sound. it is huge, yet not really heavy -- hence portable. it is elegant -- having cloned the VUs from the Big Ben -- and it is certainly desirable. but... not counting all of my three-piecers which kill it easily and effortlessly, there are at least three Sanyos that i know of which look, sound and perform better -- i'll leave it to you to guess which ones last but not least, almost all of my Sanyos look better! so, once more: what's all the fuss with the so-called king of boxes? if reputation depends on size, well this is a clear example that not always size matters.

"father, forgive them...", tech said when i was finished with my geremiad. but contrary to his belief, i think i know what i do and, what's more important, what he does. cause i think that JVCs are easier for him to repair. it cannot be otherwise: Sanyos are more sophisticated units, so he needs to work much harder on them. & like many other experts i know, tech is lazy! but i'm in for a nasty surprise: the m90 is my last JVC ever. why should i waste my time looking for such units -- beautiful but way too overpriced -- when there are so many Sanyos in the wild ready to be bagged up?

I just love this post !! Didnt read it all (will take my time for this)

but wanted to say woooooow and be the irst to comment

on those 4 beauties !!

informative post as usaul sal      good pics to

thanks my friend, i appreciate the spirit! although your post reminds me of Edmund Wilson's review of Gertrude Stein's The Making of Americans (something along the lines of "I haven't read the book all through and i doubt that anyone will, but i'm sure it's a masterpiece")

love your sense of humor (lol i doubt that my "technical" infos are of any use for anybody ) but yes, although i use the camera like a spade, it took me some time to get the pictures right

Dare to say and guess one of them Sanyos you

are reffering to Sal is the mighty MX820

looks nicer than the M90 anyway!!

Then again you must explain to your

tech that you are Sanyovar !!

Ditto.

Great post, love it when people do a proper review of their machines. I have kept away from Sanyo because of my experience with an MOM-X315L. It looked good but I felt its performance to be rather poor. Perhaps I should give them another go. Can you recommend any particular models?

it goes without saying that i love all my JVC beauties, and that my "review" is ironically a bit off the mark cause, as deech pointed out, i'm Sanyovar

this said, the list of my favorite Sanyos is too long to be posted here. for a start, among those that pop up regularly almost everywhere at reasonable prices, i recommend the M9998: old-school look, full of extras, super-solidly built and with a warm beautiful sound. i love it!

 yep Lee, very proud!

Sal, good to see you post and about bloody time

There is nothing to add to your JVC collection that will change your mind, even before you bought them I suspect

My Sanyo BigBen does indeed sound great as does my 9998, they also offer a superb quality to the touch.

A JVC and a Sanyo in a collection reminds me of Salt and Vinegar on Fish and Chips. One without the other leaves a somewhat bland dish and an incomplete collection.

thank you all guys for the nice comments!

@ Northerner

thanks for volunteering Si, i'll think over your "offer" but i guess i have to agree with what docs says about salt and vinegar

@ docs

yes, i admit i had made my mind up even before i started hunting my JVCs of course the Big Ben is the dreambox of all boxes. yours, in silver, is a dream within a dream...

Great post Sal...i soo want my m90 back lol but she is in the hands of a MASTER....

let's forget sanyo for a minute  sal....in your opinion what 3 price are better than the m90?????

hi Tim,

the 3-piecers that to my knowledge perform better than the m90 are mostly German boxes: Telefunken HiFi Studio 1M, Telefunken HiFi HP800, Grundig Party Center 1000 & 2000, Universum Senator 1000, Uher Miniport. to these you should add all the Sonys of the FH series that i know of -- starting from the stunning FH-7.

of course the m90 is a great box and of course this is extremely unfair competition: quality three piecers, especially those with wooden boxes such as the miniport, are capable of wonders as far as quality of sound is concerned

cheerz sal was just checking to see if you were aware of anything i wasn't my friend

those fh are monsters i found one in my shed today

love those boxes and I am sure though you prefer sanyo it cant be all that bad owning those jvc's... nice post    

very kind of you 

shut it lol  had all the sanyos....trouble with them try and rebelt one....no thanks haha but some are great boxes

Great post Sal...i soo want my m90 back lol but she is in the hands of a MASTER....          i meant this bit you welsh train spotters anorak  

ok MASTERS lol not sure but you may be getting it back my friend something to do with her not rewinding or ff,,,she just clunks but she is playing now.dave has spent hours on her...ohh btw im going through my shed lad....if i can find my spare 55 i'll let you know son....i'll just send the main unit....easier than me pissing about with it

yep i have it now reno ,   dave has spent a lot of time on it for sure it plays fine , stops , and auto stops just the ff/rw i just hope i can shed some light on it  .   dave has gone beyond the call of duty with this one .  

Sal your collection is like the who's who of JVC models!

thanks soundboy. yes i can live with those JVCs in my collection...

hi! well so many important units are missing, but you have to draw the line somewhere and i was lucky enough to draw it close to the top

actually when i say lucky i mean lucky: 3 out of 4 units were given to me by a guy who had no idea of market prices. unfortunately, he now lives abroad. i wonder why: perhaps he stole them boxes, then he had to quit...?!?

This is how it should be sal instead of people having to spend a years money on an m90 imho

people here should pass and swap boxes amongst themselves

Thats a great idea!

I guess it's called trading seb lol but you know where im coming from...i just hate all the greed,,,get as much as you can for this or that....i guess my brother being stinking rich and only visiting me once a year for 5 mins has something to do with it...but i have NEVER been in this hobby for the money....

take a computer shop for example i couldn't stand there and lie my ass of like my friend does saying im only making a fration out of you when i know for a fact he is the most expensive guy i know....sombody told me confidentially that there is about 150 percernt mark up on computer parts like most things

I know where you’re coming from. Money can make you rich; but in my opinion a good morality makes you richer! Not that that’s much of a consolation!

If we all set a fair price on what ever the item may be with a bin on ebay say 500 max for say something like fully working   m90 for example.and price on every other box lower aordigly to what it is condition futionallity..instead ebay members feed of us and we them by using the bidding process..letting the bidders hang themselves, driving the prices up that would bring the prices down

but whom am i to argue and i fear it's to late for that

what im saying is set a price for each and every grail and all of us stick to thw same price for that given box   in fully working condition then less for none working ones etc

I agree; sounds like a very good system. However some people would never stick to it.......but if enough people did!

I wish everybody had the same opinion Seb!

So do i mate!

exactly seb....if enough people did....and there are two forums

Two forums?

boomboxery is the other one seb....its a a very nice place there

Trouble is we might stick to rules but no one else will...its the market that drives the prices, nowt we can do about it no matter how annoying it is...the very definition of what something is worth is what someone is willing to pay for it...I did economics A level and thats about all i learnt from it lol

Its easy to not get annoyed by it tho...I've always accepted I can't have everything that I want (without working really hard which I'm too lazy to do) so if its outside my budget then so be it...ain't no biggy...I'm just happy with what I do have otherwise you're always disatisfied with your lot...there's always something bigger, better or more expensive to yearn for.

In summary...aim low...its easier

Ahh Ok, I have seen that forum, it does look good.

That’s just brilliant, be happy with your lot in other words. Not a bad philosophy Si.

hey what happened to your M70 deck door?...looks weird

It looks kike a diferent door to me, one salvaged from another machine perhaps?

think 3 dementional si not two lol

.the very definition of what something is worth is what someone is willing to pay

that is a system based on how much you can get....if every one set the same price for a m90 conion being the top of the pile with a BIN say 500 fully working....who on earth would pay for the ones that cost double that..........problem solved

Good eyes there Si.

I just noticed that the 838 and 550 share the same door...

We get in a que same as we do now....i mean if you don't have say 500 for whateaver it is you don't get that's the same as it is now imho unless your god,,,

as for who decides what is worth what im not sure about that,,,but if there are genuine members here inluding all 3 mods on both forums it should be quire easy to do,,,

people have said the price book dosen't apply to boomboxes as it does to cars,,,well i don't agree with that...it's just because no body has implimented a set price...of course this couldn't be done with every box but it would need to be just the main top 30 say,,,,the little fish look after themselves imho

aye dave very clicky with much smugness   

Originally Posted by radio raheem:

       

boomboxery is the other one seb....its a a very nice place there

       


The place where I mostly get ignored, wondering what I've said to deserve it. I've replied to posts about boxes and commented etc. while everyone comments with one another I am ignored which is quite upsetting. Also, regardless of how useful a resource a place or individual might be it doesn't give a right to be downright rude and obnoxious. Shame since I feel I have a lot to offer the place. /rant.

I was actually joking....are you effin serious dave,,,,i know we diddn't get on at first but as i said to you i think that was due to major stirring and roumours from ill minded people....this is trully the biggest suprize of the week to me......you have been nothing but a gentleman over tha last year with me and it's very very much apriciated by me and lots of members here

Originally Posted by radio raheem:

       

boomboxery is the other one seb....its a a very nice place there

       


The place where I mostly get ignored, wondering what I've said to deserve it. I've replied to posts about boxes and commented etc. while everyone comments with one another I am ignored which is quite upsetting. Also, regardless of how useful a resource a place or individual might be it doesn't give a right to be downright rude and obnoxious. Shame since I feel I have a lot to offer the place. /rant.

Well lets put it this way. I know about other forums and followed some of them for a time. I decided to join this forum for a good reason.

well it has always been like that. i guess it's not original, but i hadn't noticed it before! this means i should look for one like you did; or keep mine and pretend that my model is unique...

Pretend it's unique; there may be a lot of M-70's out there but yours is the only one in the world with this type of door fitted to it!  It's a special edition. (Still maybe you can have the door off mine if I can't fix the b****y thing!!)

nothing up with being unique sal   

Originally Posted by radio raheem:

  

boomboxery is the other one seb....its a a very nice place there

(Thread hyjack sorry Sal)

On a related note though, finding a tech is one thing, finding a tech that will discuss electronics and boxes with you, priceless. In my search for a mentor to continue learning electronics I am coming out with a low voltage so far. Once I do find someone I will be more than happy to assist people.

no prob Dave, i think that a forum is alive and kicking when people interact -- even by hijack, if it gives everybody food for thought. and your post certainly does!

I am not on boomboxery so i don't know the site and it would be unfair if i commented on it. however, i have always been intimidated by the kind of self-advertising that they made for themselves until recently -- i found it aggressive, as opposed to the friendly atmosphere offered by s2go. that's why, like Seb968, i decided to register here.

I subscribe to whatever you say about a tech who's also willing to be your mentor: it's a fantastic experience. i feel I'm really lucky to have found one in the backwater village where I live. I wish you could share the same experience, as I am not the only one on this forum who knows how helpful you are.