Lets just say after the fiasco I went through to get this box, it just gives bad vibes to me now. I never listen to it and it sits in the basement under a plastic bag. I was so in love with the 20/20 but meisjel ruined that for me.

So it's for sale.

The buy it now is way optimistic.


EBAY link.

Helix too.

EBAY link

That Rising is super sweet. I must have missed something because it seems to have a bad aura for you Charles.

Hey MB, did you get that pic I sent you?

quote:

Originally posted by CharlesDickens:
Hey MB, did you get that pic I sent you?

I'm a knob for missing that! Now that I looked at it again I see the name on the side, that's cool. I'm going to have to file that one in my boombox folder.

Hey Charley-D,


I'm not familiar with what happened on this transaction.....I'd be interested in possibly buying it but would love to know what went down when you got it. Any scratches on the dial knob? overall near mint? Let me know, looks like a great bbx.

You can read up about the bad deal here here.

Yes it's very near mint.

Good luck with the sale - Hopefully you can use the money to get another boombox that you can enjoy more than you did this one.

Yeah I hope so! Thanks pal!

Added some new pics. More to come.

Ending in a few minutes!

the pycology of ebay. a book could be written on it. ive thought about selling stuff myself, but said to myself, well, i dont wanna lose money on it, so my starting price will be fairly high so i wont lose out.

the downside of this though, is that to look at your auction Charles, nobodys gonna feel like theyre getting a bargain, or even close or that theres a possibility of getting a bargain, and we all like our money too much.

consider this. i see an item starting at 1 dollar. its a black unisef. now, obviously i know it wont end for a dollar. i think to myself, right, ill wait till the end and spring a last minute bid in there, blast the competition out of it, hell yeah.

so the last 15 minutes arrive. i dont know about ye but i get an adrenalin rush from auctions (isthatsad?) so my pulse is racing, im pitted against three other f***ers, and i want to win. they want to win too. its around this stage when reason leaves the building, and i start contemplating how much i need to bid to beat these... people.. because i WILL win, even if i have to eat baked beans for the week. in the normal run of auctions this is the period where the figures get stupid.

but, its a gamble, if your the seller, and thats why ill never sell the woofers that cost me 200+, but are just sitting in my cubbard. ill not risk handing them over for less than i paid for.

NED -- that was a great piece of writing --
you are 100% correct (imho) --the end of an ebay auction for a grail is so often a big rush-

and i hope you DO write that book -

You guys are so right. The thing is too, I hated listing them for that much anyway. I would have loved to sell them for half of that right here so you guys could enjoy them.


Money stinks.

I will let you in on my secrets to selling on ebay.

Items that will generate alot of interest that I know I want to get rid of I start at a penny or a dollar. Everyone knows it is worth a hundred or a thousand times that. Check the selling history to get an idea of what to expect, take lots of pictures, describe everything wrong with the item you can. It is the unknown that costs you bids and money... NOT letting people know up front what (if any) issues there are with an item. The problem with starting a bit higher to protect yourself is you tend to set a value that people perceive as what the item might really be worth. Start extremely low and let people fight it out. Let them save it to MYEBAY and wonder and think about it... they will get invested in it before they even bid. AND DONT SET A RESERVE. EVERY BID NEEDS TO BE A POTENTIAL "WINNER". If you set a reserve you are a sissy and all you will get is people fishing around wondering what you have it set at and if someone does hit it, they might be a no-pay because they really were not serious.

The other way I set up an auction is for a Buy-It-Now only. No bidding, just BIN. I do that for items I really don't want to sell below a certain price. And might only have a few people that really want it and they might be willing to pay for it just like I probably did at some point. With a "BIN only" you create a sense of urgency. There is no waiting around to see what the auction will do... there is a one shot deal to get it. You get it for that price or you lose it if you wait. I have gotten very very good prices on items this way, often selling them the same night I post the auction. The first time someone sees it they need to figure out if they want it or not and get off the fence or go home.

Like I said reserve auctions are stupid, counter productive and you do not get you maximum value this way.

BIN with a low starting bid is stupid too. Why would someone use BIN for $200, when the starting bid is $100? They might get it for $100 if they stick around and play their cards right. The only time I use BIN is to create a fixed price sale, not as an option to an auction style listing.


Those are my selling techniques. How effective are my selling techniques? I once sold over $25,000 in used audio equipment in 3 months and bought a new sports car with actual cash. Mostly just old stuff I had and items I picked up for a song and doubled my money on. That was 6 years ago and I don't make money one ebay anymore... I just spend it!!!


BTW I will not share my buying techniques....



See you in the e-bay trenches....

quote:

Originally posted by CharlesDickens:
You guys are so right. The thing is too, I hated listing them for that much anyway. I would have loved to sell them for half of that right here so you guys could enjoy them.


Money stinks.

Charles, I would have liked the box but in light of everything I have going on I can't easily and freely afford to drop $400 plus on a box unless it's one of the very few must haves for me. The Rising 20/20 is 1 or 2 spots off that list for me so the cost becomes more of an issue especially at $400 plus when considering shipping.

THANKS 71Spud! Good reasoning behind those techniques! I will try those methods in the future!

MB if you still want anything just send me a PM. I'm always open to anything so don't fell like lower offers will offend me. After all, I rarely pay high prices for boxes myself.

Honestly Charles I don't like the thought of getting aggresive in my offers with my fellow S2G members. I do it in flea markets, garage sales, auctions, etc... but I consider all of you my boomer friends and have to much respect for all of you to be aggressive. Maybe it's just me and I'm losing out because of it but it's what feels right to me.

For the record Ebay is totally different than trading/selling among fellow collectors, and my advise was an Ebay only strategy. A different set of rules apply here. Mainly do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If I were you in this case I would get rid of the bad mojo this box has for you and pass this on to a fellow member for what you have into it... or less. And no, I am not interested, I am just saying that I am, and have been, a member of many such boards and the more honest and generous you are to fellow members the more fun it is and the better it is for everyone. Heck, if I had a list of everyone's grails and missing parts I would spend more time looking for them (with no profit motive) than for myself. In my experience it is more rewarding as well....

Just my 2 cents....

quote:

Originally posted by 71spud:

Like I said reserve auctions are stupid, counter productive and you do not get you maximum value this way.

I will retort with how wrong you really are.

Here is my example and you'll really have nothing to come back with.

My wireless M90 remotes exceed $300 in parts and labor to assemble. Following your logic I should start at a dollar and no reserve and "hope" that someone bids higher than what it cost to manufacture them?

So if the bidding ends at $150 for the "potential winner" I have to give away $150 out my pocket for a chance to sell it on ePay?

Pluuzzeee.

I'd rather be called a sissy as you put it..... ......than to give away a product and lose money on the deal.

Stick around longer and understand how bbx economics work and you'll soon find out that its all a crap shoot.

NOW....I don't want you to think I an azzhat because I'm singling you out, but your post is very narrow minded and doesn't even consider both sides of the equation. Put yourself in my shoes.....reread what you stated and then come back and tell me how quickly you'd be willing to give away your hard earned money and time.

Trust me I'm a friend, not a foe........so don't take my post personally......its just another side of the same coin.....

Greetz.....and welcome to the board.

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by NED 209:
the pycology of ebay. a book could be written on it. ive thought about selling stuff myself, but said to myself, well, i dont wanna lose money on it, so my starting price will be fairly high so i wont lose out.

the downside of this though, is that to look at your auction Charles, nobodys gonna feel like theyre getting a bargain, or even close or that theres a possibility of getting a bargain, and we all like our money too much.

consider this. i see an item starting at 1 dollar. its a black unisef. now, obviously i know it wont end for a dollar. i think to myself, right, ill wait till the end and spring a last minute bid in there, blast the competition out of it, hell yeah.

so the last 15 minutes arrive. i dont know about ye but i get an adrenalin rush from auctions (isthatsad?) so my pulse is racing, im pitted against three other f***ers, and i want to win. they want to win too. its around this stage when reason leaves the building, and i start contemplating how much i need to bid to beat these... people.. because i WILL win, even if i have to eat baked beans for the week. in the normal run of auctions this is the period where the figures get stupid.

but, its a gamble, if your the seller, and thats why ill never sell the woofers that cost me 200+, but are just sitting in my cubbard. ill not risk handing them over for less than i paid for.

Bang on the button Ned my friend, that is why most of the boxes I eBay are always on a Buy it now only...you know where you are and what the financial outcome will be, plus if someone really wants it and you need the cash asap (as I usually do ) there is no waiting days for auctions to finish

quote:

Originally posted by kittmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by 71spud:

Like I said reserve auctions are stupid, counter productive and you do not get you maximum value this way.

I will retort with how wrong you really are.

Here is my example and you'll really have nothing to come back with.

My wireless M90 remotes exceed $300 in parts and labor to assemble. Following your logic I should start at a dollar and no reserve and "hope" that someone bids higher than what it cost to manufacture them?

So if the bidding ends at $150 for the "potential winner" I have to give away $150 out my pocket for a chance to sell it on ePay?

Pluuzzeee.

I'd rather be called a sissy as you put it..... ......than to give away a product and lose money on the deal.

Stick around longer and understand how bbx economics work and you'll soon find out that its all a crap shoot.

NOW....I don't want you to think I an azzhat because I'm singling you out, but your post is very narrow minded and doesn't even consider both sides of the equation. Put yourself in my shoes.....reread what you stated and then come back and tell me how quickly you'd be willing to give away your hard earned money and time.

Trust me I'm a friend, not a foe........so don't take my post personally......its just another side of the same coin.....

Greetz.....and welcome to the board.

Chris

I stand by my statement. If you go back and read my post again.. or maybe for the first time (fully and objectively) you will see that you fall into the "BIN Only" category. Not the ebay-it for a penny, no reserve. You have a product that is unique, and highly desirable. But a limited market. Very limited. Maybe a couple people at a time might want it. You will never get anywhere trying to sell it in an auction type setting. Do a BIN only with a price that is high enough to cover your costs and take care of your time. When are you ever going to get a couple of people, at the same time, wanting to bid back and forth for a very expensive item that they can try for again next week? It is a manufactured item and given that the supply is only "limited" to how many you want to make and sell. Now I know you are a bit sore because there was alot of interest and excitement when you started this project and now that it is here... not so much. I saw the video, and you did an excellent job on it. No question. But in doing so you probably priced yourself out of a market for it. Other than a few over the top M90 collectors this may never get beyond the "wish list" for most M90 owners. That being said, show me that it works on a PC-5 and I will buy one. No question. If you want to move your product you need to either find a way to lower cost, without lowering the quality.. or... expand your offering to the entire JVC line to expand your market. I have no idea what it would take to modify your remote to work with other JVC models of the same era. Maybe it will be easy enough to do and allow you to lower costs, expand your market and make some money. Are there any economies of scale with your remote components? Any chance you can lower your asking price considerably with a large(r) order? BTW was that your initial goal, to make money? Or was it to make a unique item for yourself and a few others? If you wanted to make money did you do market tests to see how many people would be interested? And at what price? Did you get any commitments? REAL commitments? For free, everyone wants one. For a million dollars, nobody does. You fall inbetween. Is it enough to make it worth while? Maybe? For the love of it and for the community of it? Or to make it profitable? Nobody expects you to lose money on it... that makes no sense. But you need to somehow justify what you are doing. As a business model it is not very good.... as a service to the bbx community it was a worthwhile venture just to even give it a go in the first place.

Back to the auction. Reserve pricing is lame. It really is. The purpose is to test the waters without making a commitment. To try and get buyers interested without telling them how much you will really sell it for. Until the reserve is met their bids mean nothing. Nothing to them, nothing to you. Think about how that would work in a store. You pick up your item that has a low price tag and go to the checkout. That isn't the REAL price however.... You have to keep handing money to the clerk and when you have handed her enough the item is yours... except not really... now that you know what they are willing to sell it for she pages the whole store and lets them know what that price is and tells them they have 3 days to come to the checkout and offer more than that to get it.

The best true "auction" model (as far as getting the highest price for a given group of bidders) is fixed time blind auction where nobody knows what anyone else is bidding where the winner pays the amount of the second highest bid. Everyone places one bid and then the winner is declared. This is proven to generate the highest ending value because the winner knows they won't pay what they bid... they will only pay the second highest price. They have one shot at it and will bid more than they would otherwise.

But you know what... this is missing the point. I don't have the time to teach a class on supply and demand and how it relates to auctions ebay or not. I don't need to be around for a along time to know how bbx economics works. I have a BS in Quantitative Economics and a minor in Business. I made the Dean's list every semester I was going for my major. I competed against the entire economics department in a supply and demand simulation that lasted about 12 weeks as I recall. My "company" came out #1 at the end. I worked in 100% commission and salary+bonus outside sales for 10 years and I have owned my own business for 5 years. I have been on E-bay for 10 years with over 1000 successful transactions. I have been a contributing member of 2 audio boards besides this one, a music board and an automobile board. I know how niche markets work. Trust me. And I know how both sides of the equation work. I have bought or sold a total of over $100,000 through these boards. Some for a profit, mostly not (by choice). I am not bragging or trying to build myself up. I am just stating my background so you know I am not just blowing smoke out my a$$.

In your specific case you made a mistake. What you were (and are) providing is the perfect candidate for what is known as a "group buy". NOT an auction, or even straight sales. I am guessing you would have done it just to do it and make one for yourself. So throw the R&D costs out the window. You would have done it anyway. What you should (and still can) do is find out where your price breaks are on your pieces parts. Figure out how much time you can shave off of your assembly if you make a mini assembly line and perform one or two operations on 5,10,20,30 units. A good place to stop is when you have to switch tools. Once you have a tool in your hand and you perform an operation do it 10 (20.30) more times and then go to the next step. How much time do you think you can save at the different levels of production? Put it all together and come up with reasonable price breaks. THEN post an offer to sell your remote at these levels for the reduced prices you come up with. Set a reasonable time limit for people to sign up to get a remote at whatever level they are willing to commit at. Let people know this is probably the ONLY time you will go through this process, (maybe ever and for sure at this price) Make and keep a running list on the front post of the names of the people placing the order and if they have sent their deposit in yet. (YES, now that you have proven it works taking a deposit is entirely reasonable, usually enough to cover most of your supplies) Pretty soon you will have people selling your product for you, encouraging others to buy to get the price down for everyone. After a week or two you will get a good feel for what level is going to get hit. Encourage others to join so you can hit that level and then when you do great! Get the parts ordered, Have everyone send in the balance due for their unit, set aside a weekend and get it done! (Make sure to make a few extras for latecomers or to sell later on.) And that's it! Simple! This is the best way to handle this type of product and it is used all the time for small production runs for niche markets. It is also used for importing parts and equipment that would otherwise cost a good deal more when procured on a one-two basis.

BBX Economics is no different from anything else. There may be more brand or model loyalty, but that is just a smaller market. Not a bad thing because usually that means people really care about these kind of fun extras if you can make it affordable.... or at least justifiable.

Good luck! And if you can make it work for the PC-5 let me know. Personally I probably won't ever get an M90 or even an M70. But I love the PC-5....

Regards,

Joel

i thought this was about a rising on ebay?

Good points and taken in.

I'm just going to snapshot a quick response since this is way off the topic:

Are there any economies of scale with your remote components? No, unfortunately

Any chance you can lower your asking price considerably with a large(r) order? The costs are fixed with part on hand, no new part orders

BTW was that your initial goal, to make money? No

Or was it to make a unique item for yourself and a few others? Both

If you wanted to make money did you do market tests to see how many people would be interested? Yes, here, lots of responses

And at what price? Projected $500 from day one, still lots of interest

Did you get any commitments? Yes, at least 5 people that fueled the project

REAL commitments? Yes, at least 5 people that fueled the project

Then most just disappeared or gave some reason to back out while still continuing to buy $400+ bbx. So it was all talk zero action

The cost NO BS....1/5 to created casing, 2/5 parts, 1/5 manual labor/assembly 1/5 profit...NOT PADDING!

I do respect your post and bring your original post in better focus.......so....want to market it for me......

In short ebay is whatever you want it to be within their rules. Are there ways to list that are more successful than others, absolutely. Are their risks associated with some of these methods, absolutely. It boils down to what kind of risk is the seller willing to take. There is nothing wrong with using a reserve, BIN, or starting your auction at $1. It all boils down to what the seller wants to do, there is no right or wrong and the auctions are what they are. If you personally don't like how some people are listing items then it may be personally beneficial to you not to use ebay.

It really amazes me how ebay can stir so much emotion in us when it's really our choice to use it or not.

Just my two cents and no disrespect to any other opinions.

interesting thread! > i think < it makes more sense to start an auction at the minimum price you are willing to accept for it, rather than a reserve thats a mystery.
starting at 99 cents rocks hard though