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toocool4 - 2011-03-16 09:13

I was reading this article on cnet by Steve Guttenberg on tapes Vs mp3’s.
From what he had to say, I can only say he has only really experienced cheap tapes and tape decks.

What do you think?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20027773-47.html?tag=mncol;txt

radio.raheem - 2011-03-16 15:45

you dont need expensive tapes just a good deck and well mentained one, mp3's puh

bub - 2011-03-16 20:37

Sorry but unfortunately, I feel he's got a point. Most people never experienced cassettes "properly". Most people experienced the "cheap" side of cassettes, and that reputation ticks up to today. Not everybody knew that quality decks like nakamichis existed, let alone knowing that "this recording was biased wrongly" or "the azimuth is off". They just thought that it was a flaw of the cassette.

On the other hand, digital had none of this "you must know how to set up the calibration on your deck right" to get a good recording. iTunes just ripped it at a bitrate for you and put it on your ipod- bam. done. Consumers care more about convenience.

You have no idea how poorly recorded many of the old tapes I come across from flea markets or friends sound. Even on good tapes. The tape that came in my JX-3000 (a high end amorphous head aiwa) was poorly recorded in the wrong bias setting. On an 80s XLII. Another TDK SA with different azimuth offset on each side. So on and so forth. I was surprised when I found an acceptable recording of old chinese operas on an XLII at the flea market.

Just the same way most people only experience mp3s on 128kbps mp3s or whatever default itunes sets to.

toocool4 - 2011-03-17 02:10

Radio Raheem I have to say I disagree with you on not needing an expensive good tapes, I don’t care how good the deck is a TDK D is still going to sound bad.

Bub I agree with you that most people have not experienced a decent recording on a good deck. Most people are just after convenience and how much music they can carry with them.

Also like you say with the digital music, if all you listen to is badly compressed mp3’s then you won’t get the full benefit either. Mp3’s off iTunes are a long way short of the studio grade downloads you can get these days.

I feel these days with mp3’s players so large in storage capacity, there is no need for compressions anymore.

isolator42 - 2011-03-17 06:10

To answer the question: Yes, cassette was undoubtedly the mp3 of it's day. That is; a cheap way to copy and distribute music in a re-useable, portable format.

I may get hunted down for this, but personally, I was glad to see the back of cassettes as my primary recording media (I used CD-R Audio as soon as it wasn't stupidly priced).

Cassettes did sound great when done right, but the compatibility issues annoyed me constantly. Boomers and walkmen without CrO2 switches, head alignment woes and bloody Dobly C. Also, any cassette was fragile as hell - one play in a mates car stereo and the tape might be nibbled all along one side and will never play right again, etc.

However (and it's a biggie), it was all we had and I was glad of the opportunity to acquire music cheaply, that I could listen to on the go. "Home taping is killing music" they said. Utter rubbish. I have bought more music legally as a result of listening to a home-taped copy than for any other reason. It was the closest thing to "try before you buy" back then.

Talking to kids about how it was with music back then is like trying to explain life without mobile phones and the internet. They just smile and look at you funny, like you're ready to go into a Care Home, but no-one's noticed yet...

toocool4 - 2011-03-17 06:47

Hi isolator42 I never got into the CD / CD-R stuff never really found a CD player I truly like better then my record player.

With regard to tape players and tapes I guess I have been lucky, as I’ve only ever owned Nakamichi home decks. So sound quality was never an issue for me.

With regard to trying to explain to people why I still tape personals as opposed to mp3 players, I gave up a long time ago. Some times I let them have a listen and they are always amazed at the sound quality.

Every day I sit on the train to and from work surrounded by people with mp3 players, whenever I go to change the tape over from side A to B they all look at me as if I’m mad (maybe I am) but I know better so don’t mined the looks.

isolator42 - 2011-03-17 08:57

sounds like you need an auto-reverse walkman

Within your own described use (and mine too back then) cassettes worked just fine. My Aiwa walkman and my Kenwood HiFi deck were a great match and all was well. It's when anyone or anything else got involved that the trouble starts. This inevitably does happen, due to the nature of the format: A mate records a CD or LP for you, or you play the tape on your girlfriends boomer, etc.

Ideally, I'd borrow the CD to record myself. Otherwise you'll have the possibility of your tape being made with automatic recording levels (ugh) - this amongst a multitude of other possible problems (no Dolby, wrong tape type selected, dirty or poorly adjusted head, the list goes on). I'd make tape-to-tape copies of some of my tapes to lend (or give to the girlfriend!).

There are of course, somewhat similar problems with mp3, although there are less of them. Things like poor bit rate 128kbps (or even less sometimes!), and saturated levels (loudness pushing) that muddle or distort the sound. Other issues are resolvable, such as a lack of mp3 info (artist, title, genre, year, artwork, etc.).

Also, just like some LP pressings sounded poor & many shop-bought 'musicassettes' sounded rubbish (compared to a good TDK SA copy of the LP), Some perfectly legal mp3 downloads sound truly dreadful due to crappy mastering.

So, overall, mp3 wins for me.

However, whenever I see someone with a proper old-school cassette walkman (that they're using out of choice instead of an iPod), I'm always impressed

bub - 2011-03-17 12:33

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of autoreverse. Tape head alignment (azimuth) is touchy enough already. I never managed to get perfect azimuth on many of my autoreverse walkmans, especially the 80s units. My Toshiba KT-AS10 is particularly guilty of this.
Or you can get it ok on one side and slightly off on the other. Some don't even have azimuth ajustment.

Out of the autoreversing walkmans I have, the WM-EX1/FX1 seems to be the most consistent and accurate- (and it has fixed azimuth!). JX-2000 maybe- but that one is currently too unreliable (logic controls screwing around) to accurately judge. Din't have a DD9 (technically the best autoreversing walkman)

toocool4 - 2011-03-17 13:02

Hi isolator42 I do have 1 a DD9 but it’s with Dotor Walkman at the moment for a complete overhaul.

Like you I always make my own recordings from LP’s and if I have to record from CD’s, I take my Nakamichi CR-7 to my friends house where I can use his Nagra CDC. This way I don’t have the mismatch issues with other peoples tape decks.

Bub like you I’m not a big fan of auto-reverse decks, which is way I usually use D6C or DC2 while I’m out and about.

Dotor Walkman promises me I will like the DD9 better than the D6C and the DC2 once he has finished working on it.

isolator42 - 2011-03-18 03:15

Oh yes, that's true.

My Sony WM-60 had real problems with head alignment and was apparently a bit famous for it. It always played great in one direction or the other (with a tiny tweak of the alignment screw), but never both ways together.

I loved it all the same, and it got heavy use for years until it literally fell apart (happily, s2g member jazzrat2000 sold me a replacement about 6 years ago). The feature-count was terrific: 5 band EQ, Dolby, CrO2 switch, 2 headphone sockets, long battery life (2 AAs) and classy "cousin of DC2" looks:

http://www.walkmancentral.com/products/wm-60

Writing about it makes me want to give it a listen right now...

toocool4 - 2011-03-18 08:02

You should get the WM-60 back out, it may remained you of what you loved about it in the first place. You may just start using it again.

isolator42 - 2011-03-18 08:37

Maybe, yes.

However, if I go into my walkmen box, I'll play with the WM-60 for a while, but I'd end up getting my Aiwa HS-PX101 out of it's little pouch (which is modestly(!) labelled "Aiwa headphone stereo - the best you've ever heard") and using that one instead.

When my WM-60 died, the UK magazine "What HiFi" had just reviewed posh personal stereos and this Aiwa came out on top of the Sony DC2 and some early portable CD players (rather bulky in their infancy in the mid/late 80s). I just had to have one. When I got it, my brother and at least one other mate bought one too having heard mine - RRP 150 UK pounds! Today, I still use the headphones it came with: HP-MR1s, which were available on their own for 40 UK pounds back then. When it was hooked up to a decent home HiFi, this walkman sounded almost indistinguishable from a top flight tape deck.

That Aiwa was the peak of my time with cassettes

Here's a pic:

http://www.shizaudio.ru/wm/det...68791550fded506c8a3c

toocool4 - 2011-03-18 09:46

Hey it looks like one I use to have, I had a range of Aiwa’s I had the HS-JX101, HS-JX303, HS-JX505, HS-JX707, HS-JX909 and the HS-PX1000. Those where the days I loved the BBE and DSL functions on them cool.

I have to say though about what Hi-Fi, I would not believe a word they say.

isolator42 - 2011-03-18 16:06

As well as the sound quality, I think part of the reason I (& others) preferred the Aiwa HS-PX101 to the Sony DC2 (when making up my mind, I listened to both and others too) was all the extra features it had. DSL (bass and treble) controls, full logic auto reverse, music search, headphone remote, etc. Also, it was smaller - barely bigger than a cassette case.

What you said about What HiFi made me laugh - back then I knew people that treated that magazine as the audio bible. To be fair, it was a much more "serious" magazine in the 80s...

blaster - 2011-03-18 16:11

Good thread, i agree with so much room now on drives why go so low on compression....on cassettes....back in the day not everyone could afford expensive cassettes i recall...at times i took what i could to record....the 80s were a rough economical time here in the US and these times are a repetition of the 80s...but as time went i did get a decent job and i did eventually buy
better cassettes....it is one of the sole reasons i wish i could go back into time and record stuff off the radio with better sounding equipment like a minidisc or cd-r or better tapes...

Originally Posted by toocool4:

Radio Raheem I have to say I disagree with you on not needing an expensive good tapes, I don’t care how good the deck is a TDK D is still going to sound bad.

Bub I agree with you that most people have not experienced a decent recording on a good deck. Most people are just after convenience and how much music they can carry with them.

I feel these days with mp3’s players so large in storage capacity, there is no need for compressions anymore.

lav.loo - 2011-03-19 06:05

good thread TC4, tapes all the way for me, i still do mix tapes to this day.
i have a chrome tape which i mixed back in the early 90,s, an i gotta say it still sounds awesome.
i don't even own an mp3, not now, not never

bub - 2011-03-19 07:21

Ironically most of my recorded tapes today involve a Creative Zen Vision M.

Aside from having some of the best sound quality of a DAP, It has a true lineout that bypasses the internal headphone amp, making it a more direct way to record mixtapes by using playlists.

Connected to the Line-In of the D6C, it produces superb recordings that rival my Nakamichi connected to a CD deck. With Flac/320kbps mp3/Wav sources, it is probaly the most convenient method I've ever come up with for recording. As the line out from the ZEN comes directly from the Digital to Analog converter, it goes straight to the D6C as a "direct" bridge. Not to mention the entire setup is portable! (Except that the D6C requires the power adapter to produce the best recordings).

The resulting cassette recordings sound way better than the Zen itself, mostly thanks to the superb pre-amp, headphone amp and overall engineering of D6C.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-19 10:09

Originally Posted by toocool4:

Radio Raheem I have to say I disagree with you on not needing an expensive good tapes, I don’t care how good the deck is a TDK D is still going to sound bad.

Bub I agree with you that most people have not experienced a decent recording on a good deck. Most people are just after convenience and how much music they can carry with them.

I feel these days with mp3’s players so large in storage capacity, there is no need for compressions anymore.

most of my tapes are o rigional but having said that i must have over 1000 copies....i dont use mega cheap tapes...but chrome is good enough for me and they can be had cheap... btw great thread guys....isolator i have that aiwa you speak of and yes i could be wrong but to me it sounds better than a dd9..when it was working lol..sombody give me a working dd9..thank you lol

toocool4 - 2011-03-19 11:09

Thanks LAV LOO I think like you I’m old skool. For me it’s all about sound quality, just because I’m on the move does not mean I have to put up with sub-standard sound.

I also still have tapes dating back to the 80’s that still sound good today.

For other people it’s about convenience and carrying as much music with them as possible.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-19 17:13

Originally Posted by toocool4:

Thanks LAV LOO I think like you I’m old skool. For me it’s all about sound quality, just because I’m on the move does not mean I have to put up with sub-standard sound.

I also still have tapes dating back to the 80’s that still sound good today.

For other people it’s about convenience and carrying as much music with them as possible.

Im also like you...only the best will do (within reason) I had one of those ipod tuch things for about a month.. i used high conversion bla bla and i have a set of grado rs1 headphones....basically an old walkman is far supirior than the ipod in sound quality and volume....I gave mine away after about a month..the ipod is just awful imho but Please I dont mean any offence to anybody with one..

bub - 2011-03-20 06:52

I find the main problem with the iPod is the crappy amp. It cannot drive many headphones properly (let alone a Grado RS1) and several models have trouble reproducing low frequencies.

This is in stark contrast to walkmans like the D6C with its awesome amp.

Some DAPs are much better sound quality wise compared to the iPods (Zen Vision M was one of them, even some older Sony models), but most of them still come with weak amps. Worse of all, many consumer's don't care- they are happy with the incredibly crappy stock earbuds. Although, to be frankly honest, the stock earbuds that come with many walkmans are not much better if any at all.

Which is another reason why the D6C is so awesome. It's everything a portable should be (ok except for bulkiness). I too mostly use my D6C and my newly acquired DC2. The sound is just too good to pass up.

toocool4 - 2011-03-20 09:50

To be honest the reason most people use the stock head / in ear phones that comes with the personal players, are they just don’t know any better or maybe just don’t care.

I have heard of people talking about Headroom’s Total AirHead / Total BitHead and the NuForce icon amps, this may be a way round the bad amps built into personal players.

I believe the Total BitHead and Icon mobile bypasses the iPods internal processing and use there own digital to analogue converter for better sound quality.

The only problem there is, it’s yet something else you have to carry and feed with batteries.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-20 10:51

Originally Posted by bub:

D6c a classic walkman I had one yrs ago had it in trade for a megadrive...would love another but they seem to go for silly money...only issue i had with mine is i found it lacked bass but dont get me wrong...i loved mine and would love another....thanks for the trip down memory lane...whats a zen version m? is it touch screen?because another issue with the ipod for me is that i cant stand touch screen...

toocool4 - 2011-03-20 13:22

I still have 2 D6C’s I don’t find it lacking in bass, it sounds very natural.
I also have other Walkman’s with bass boost, I never use the bass boost as it sounds too artificial.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-20 13:55

Originally Posted by toocool4:

I still have 2 D6C’s I don’t find it lacking in bass, it sounds very natural.
I also have other Walkman’s with bass boost, I never use the bass boost as it sounds too artificial.

Dont get me wrong i just love deep low bass..but then i enjoyed my d6c at the time...infact i have just been looking to buy one

toocool4 - 2011-03-20 15:01

Originally Posted by Radio Raheem:

Dont get me wrong i just love deep low bass..but then i enjoyed my d6c at the time...infact i have just been looking to buy one

There are a few on eBay at the moment, like you say they are holding their price. Keep look you may get a bargain.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-20 15:25

thanks

bub - 2011-03-20 20:22

I definitely don't think the D6C lacks in bass. Not a fan of Mega Bass and all that Loudness "features" either. Ironically designed for the purpose of use with stock earbuds.

Zen Vision M is an older 2006 model without touch screen.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-20 20:31

Bub would you say the d6c has better bass than a sonydd9 or equivelent....i had my d6c about 20 yrs ago...it could have been mismached headphones or something like that...alth i still found it's amp section powerful (for a walkman) and it was good sounding...I can't wait to get another when funds permit...just for the memories....it was such a good time...

toocool4 - 2011-03-21 00:31

I have both the D6C and DD9 and the D6C has vastly superior bass to the DD9, in fact the D6C is superior in everyway. This is my opinion, but I know a lot of people agree with me.

radio.raheem - 2011-03-21 01:17

Sweet cant wait to get a d6c buddy my headphones must have not been up to the job

isolator42 - 2011-03-21 06:28

I agree about iPod's headphone amp.

I have the 5th Gen iPod video, widely regarded to be one of the better iPods for sound. The headphone amp is weedy and the built-in EQ is a joke. So many of the settings distort the sound, it's next to useless. If on a long train or plane journey I hook the iPod up to a sony SEQ-50 which helps things alot when needing tone adjustment.

Happily for me, most of my iPod listening is done in my car which connects via the iPod data socket, bypassing the headphone amp. Then the sound is improved and with the right mp3 gets within a mile of car system's the CD player... just

3.db - 2011-04-07 02:46

What a trip it is to see people still talking about head alignment and how a cassette can actually sound good. It's so cool to see people still hanging on to that technology.

Cassettes could sound very good indeed, if you knew what you were doing and had a good deck. There's one problem with them that I haven't seen brought up yet, though: speed variations. Having a deck that was a little ( and I do mean even just slightly) fast or slow used to drive me crazy. Wow and flutter did too. It was mostly a problem with inexpensive gear, but it was an issue just the same.

I had a really killer Denon deck with duel drive capstans and through the years had a few decent portables. The combination would really knock your socks off especially when compared to what has become acceptable in this day and age. I still kind of miss that set-up.

I took the plunge into MiniDisc around '95 and haven't really looked back since as I was and am quite happy with the sound quality I'm still using MD to this day as the vast majority of my music collection is on vinyl.

Perhaps I should dust off that old Denon again to see what I've been missing out on.

I have to agree that the vast majority of people never used or even heard cassettes to their full potential. As someone said above I've run across a lot of used tapes that sound awful. All of those cheesy duel well dubbing decks and high speed dubbing didn't help either, nor did the thin 90 minute tapes everyone were so fond of back then. I always stuck to 60s as the tape was thicker.

toocool4 - 2011-04-11 05:18

Yes MiniDisc is good, I did not think much of it when it came out as it lags behind a decent tape player.

When MP3 became big I began to appreciate the sound of the MiniDisc as it was vastly superior to MP3’s.

I did like the Philips Digital Compact Cassette (DCC) which to me was better than MiniDisc, but typical Philips marketing was so bad and they lost out to Sony’s MiniDisc.

I did not have problems with C90’s, as they were are the same thickness as C60’s. I did not go anywhere near C120’s as that is just asking for trouble.

3.db - 2011-04-12 09:15

Actually up until the decline of the cassette around the mid '90s just about every decent tape that was less than a C60 had 15um tape. C90s were 10um. I'm not sure about the C120s other than to say they were piratically useless.
In later years the tape manufactures quit making 15um tape and started putting the thin 10um stuff in everything up to C90 including pre-recorded albums.

Compare a C60 tape from the '70s or '80s with one for the mid to late 90s to now and you'll see a differance.

radio.raheem - 2011-04-12 18:50

I never new anything about the thickness of tape..sufice to say all i new was not to go near a c120....I have to say regarding mini disc I had a reasnoble personal cd..i wanted mini disc i tried all the best ones wich cost over £400 and i just left them there..the amp sections in those players were just awful...actually worse than the ipod is now...im not sure how good a stand alone mini disc is but i would never have a portable one...not meaning to offend anyone...

isolator42 - 2011-04-13 02:23

You've touched on something interesting there - the headphone amp sections in walkmen, discmen & mp3 players used to vary greatly & still do.
The best disc-drive, amprhous-head, Dolby B & C walkman in the world is still going to sound ropey without a good amp section.
I was happy to hear that the 5th gen iPod Video was amongst the best of the iPods for sound quality through the data connector ('cos I own one. Something about higher quality mp3 hardware inside), but the headphone output is still audibly worse... & don't go *near* the EQ.

radio.raheem - 2011-04-13 05:38

The new ipod has an eq...interesting..I don't belive the early ones did..including mine..but you say it's worse..how so paul?

isolator42 - 2011-04-13 07:17

...sorry, I meant the preset EQ settings, rock, jazz, loudness, etc. Most of them push some of the frequencies up above half way, which can (& often does) result in major distortion at the pre-amp stage, so the sound is distorted at *any* output volume. You can imagine the mess "bass booster" makes... bloody hideous.

radio.raheem - 2011-04-13 07:27

"bloody hideous"

Cracker...only the english would use an expression like that...

you must have the ipod I had then..I found no problem with the settings just they did hardly anything...take that aiwa walkman you have..what's it the 101..I was using it a few days ago with my grado rs1 ..wich nobody wants on ebay. put simply forget the ipod..

isolator42 - 2011-04-13 07:59

Yup, still got a fully working HS-PX101 (& another complete but battered example in need of a new belt) & its sound simply cr4ps all over my iPod. Come to that it's better than my Sony Discman too.

However, come the time of cheaper Discmen in the early 90s, I moved over from my beloved all-metal Aiwa tape player to the plastic Sony Discman because of the convenience (track selection, shuffle & resume play, etc.) & the consistant sound quality that CD provided (no more head alignment woes) ...also I liked the MegaBass switch on my Discman

I kept the Aiwa headphones however, & still have them here right now at my work desk, over twenty years later. New foams every few years - thanks to eBay.

radio.raheem - 2011-04-13 08:16

You can just imagine the draw that an iPod has for me - instant access to my entire music library (approx 9000 songs & always growing) docked in the car or on the main home hifi system, or thru any boombox I choose via the FM transmitter. None of these choices use the headphone socket, happily . Of course I can lad...only prob I found with that amount of music was that I became to complasent in what i wanted to listen to..id'e listen to something for say 20 seconds and moove on..I was just spoilt for to much choice lad...! 10 yrs ago i had over a terabyte of mp3 so i know what choice is like...I tell the something paul..If you know of a superb sounding mp3 player as good as lets say the aiwa..dosen't have touch screen..dosent use an internal hdd..im all ears son...best one i had was a creative zen..but the hdd would die on them if you sneezed...it was better or as good as a walkman...I was blown away when I first had mine...Btw thanks lad for this discussion,,,had the grado's on and iv'e ended my ebay listing....I have better sounding headphones that the Grado's but there just no good for, or as loud as the grados on the walkman...I had them on there cheap...they should have flown off the shelf...sod that i would be losing to much money and the pleasure of using them...

radio.raheem - 2011-04-13 08:23

I typed in a bloody huge essay and its gone...cant do it again...thanks paul cuz of this discussion i have ended my grado auction....there to good and I was loosing way to much...creative zen best mp3 i had but the hdd would die if you sneezed id love something the same..no hdd no touch screen nowt..just a sound as good as the zen..

isolator42 - 2011-04-13 10:10

Here's your essay...

"Of course I can lad...only prob I found with that amount of music was that I became to complasent in what i wanted to listen to..id'e listen to something for say 20 seconds and moove on..I was just spoilt for to much choice lad...! 10 yrs ago i had over a terabyte of mp3 so i know what choice is like...I tell the something paul..If you know of a superb sounding mp3 player as good as lets say the aiwa..dosen't have touch screen..dosent use an internal hdd..im all ears son...best one i had was a creative zen..but the hdd would die on them if you sneezed...it was better or as good as a walkman...I was blown away when I first had mine...Btw thanks lad for this discussion,,,had the grado's on and iv'e ended my ebay listing....I have better sounding headphones that the Grado's but there just no good for, or as loud as the grados on the walkman...I had them on there cheap...they should have flown off the shelf...sod that i would be losing to much money and the pleasure of using them..."

The delights of email updates

With this new look s2g, I can't keep track of my posts like I used to...

3.db - 2011-04-14 01:39

Originally Posted by Radio Raheem:

.i wanted mini disc i tried all the best ones wich cost over £400 and i just left them there..the amp sections in those players were just awful...actually worse than the ipod is now...im not sure how good a stand alone mini disc is but i would never have a portable one...not meaning to offend anyone...

Oh some were better than others for sure, but none of them had any power. 1 AA battery just doesn't cut it. I always used a home-brew headphone amp.

And iPods? Please. Pure overated junk. Why people bother with those things when there's Cowon is beyond me. Even Sansa blows them away.

stereo2go - 2011-04-14 05:48

That's a weird bug. Let's figure that one out.

Agree with +3db's mention of Cowon. I just picked up one of these Cowon J3 players and it's excellent. It will play lossless FLAC and nearly every other format. It even includes an audio EQ feature by BBE that you'll remember from the classic Aiwas.

radio.raheem - 2011-04-15 10:27

Never heard of cowon info please guys asap...

radio.raheem - 2011-04-15 10:32

posted buy +3db

And iPods? Please. Pure overated junk. Why people bother with those things when there's Cowon is beyond me. Even Sansa blows them away.

That's the best thing i have heard anybody say regarding the ipod in 3 yrs....you have made my day Sir..........Just the word ipod totally gets my blood boiling..To think I paid £400 for one of those things...TOTAL truth if I was anybody famous with piles of money...id actualy sue apple for making them..fact....I gave my ipod away i was that discusted with it...I diddn't want to charge anybody else for such rubbish...I only had it a month and that was enough...

3.db - 2011-04-16 01:16

Originally Posted by Radio Raheem:

Never heard of cowon info please guys asap...

Here ya go:

http://www.jetaudio.com/products/

Simply put they blow everything else into the weeds when it comes to digital PMPs. Nothing else even comes close. The Sansa Clip and Fuse are nice and sound great, but most Cowons have at least 30mW/ch. iPods? Try 5mW.

Originally Posted by Radio Raheem:

That's the best thing i have heard anybody say regarding the ipod in 3 yrs....you have made my day Sir..........Just the word ipod totally gets my blood boiling..To think I paid £400 for one of those things...TOTAL truth if I was anybody famous with piles of money...id actualy sue apple for making them..fact....I gave my ipod away i was that discusted with it...I diddn't want to charge anybody else for such rubbish...I only had it a month and that was enough...

I kept my first one for about 2 hours. Why? The first thing that hit me is that you can't get to the battery. I never dreamed that there would be a portable electronic device of any sort built in such a way that the battery wasn't acessable.

Now it seems to have become the norm. What's next, a car with the hood (bonnet) welded down and no fuel cap?

I'll spare everyone my usual rant. Let's just say I don't care for iPods much at all, nor am I fond of Apple in general.

radio.raheem - 2011-04-16 08:08

I agree 200% I never even got around to the fact that you can't change the battry..never thought of that BUT yes even that bugged me...imagine buying a walkman that you couldn't change the battry on back in the 80's that would have been a superb seller (not)

3.db - 2011-04-17 01:09

+1 for the good old cassette walkamn for sure. Now add to that the idea that with a tape deck there is no limit to how much it will hold. Nor do you need a computer to add something different to it. Just pop in another tape.

Besides any of that it took time and skill to put tapes together. It was (and is) a labor of love. It's a shame that future generations won't experience getting the levels just right , cueing the record up and hitting the pause button right as that part of the label goes by the spot that marks where the music starts. A "playlist" could never replace the joy of the mix tape you put together.

Yes, it's true that we had to actully record our music in real time, but I loved every minute of it.