there goes another sad victim of our economy -

its our local big time employer --their world headquarters is a few miles from us --lots of good folks/friends laid off today -

announced a closing of over 100 stores

they are asking our government for NO bailouts, NO handouts

this is a dismal sign --

us optomists -- NEED a turn-around

wow, thats sad...pretty soon its gonna be tough trying to get a job...i think history is gonna repeat itself...were gonna live thru the depression era of the 30s again more or less....something has to be done soon and fast because its gonna have a domino effect on many people...

That sucks bigtime.......

Economic chain reaction that's affecting the whole globe.Thanks congress

I remember when it used to be known as Office Warehouse. My friend and I always called it Office Whorehouse.

Crime will go up... lock up your boomers!!!!

Big box stores of that type are really being killed off by companies that don't maintain a store but let you order by catalog or internet only like Bruce Office Supply. They are more efficient because they don't carry the overhead of property and employees to operate a chain. You order your stuff and you'll get it damn near next day. They began moving into personal accounts recently since a lot of corporate employees looked to the gargantuan selection (not bound to "exclusive" brand deals) and conveince. Not to mention pretty good prices. They also don't try to be all things to all people. I've yet to see a PC for sale available from Bruce.

Sad nonetheless.

I'm praying for our country it really needs it for all of us. So will next year be everything socialized?

All valid fears and legitimate points. Crime will go up which keeps Police busy. People will be forced into desperate situations to provide for their loved one. Things they normally would never see themselves doing. News stated last week that military recuitment is booming as it is a guaranteed job/paycheck with fantastic benefits/VA home loan assistance and college tuition assistance. This is hitting all us us either directly or indirectly. We're all hurting whether we see it of just feel it. I don't foresee anything substantially positive for at least the next 2 years (IMO). I pray I'm wrong though.

unfortunately -- i agree that we may be in a 2 year funk

Looks like we're in a full-blown recession here, and, as the pundits say, it's gonna get worse before it gets better. First it was bad credit and bad loans, and now... who knows where or when it'll end? I predict that, before it's over, none of us will remain untouched.

Think I'll spend a little extra at Office Max and Stapes this Christmas. Maybe they'll hire some laid-off Office Depot folks.

This is simply another company doing what thousands of companies have been forced to do over the past few years. For Office Depot, it was long overdue. They haven't in touch with consumers since the mid-90's, and now deeper cuts reflect the damage done to business sales in the past 24 months.


Sad, yes, but necessary.


For all of the supposed business prowess that America claims to have, we seem to have come to a crossroads in running companies responsibly these days. Short on principles, short on ethical business practices, which short-change all of us in the end.


As for the bad loans/credit, folks need to keep in mind that is our very own CITIZENS that didn't exercise the financial responsibility. Nobody went around putting guns to people's heads demanding that they take out these bad loans. Shoddy business practices or not, our own fellow Americans screwed us over worse than the lenders.


If only there was some way to garnish their wages to pay back our tax dollars.....

I'm with panfan...I had some mortgage brokers in the building that I leased space in, you would not believe the "clients' they had...it was like a homeless convention.

Also Office Depots heyday does go back to the 80 and 90's. I was a frequent customer, not in the last 7 - 8 years. Bad service, high prices.

They were always good to look at items like laptops and printers or furniture and then I would find and buy item at far superior price.
(cheaper)

quote:

Originally posted by Jovie:
Economic chain reaction that's affecting the whole globe.Thanks congress

I wouldn't blanket them into this, these are PRIVATE companies that are making bad choices and causing these issues. Congress is trying to prevent a huge disaster. While is completely unfcking fair to the taxpayer, I can see why it's being done. I completely disagree with what they are doing to fix this issue since I'm not in any of those messes (bad mortgage, no credit, etc etc), but if they didn't the effect would be 1000x worse than try to fix a completely screwed up system........IMO

But it was the Congress that didn't stop the job outsourcing that was done by those private companies. And what were they thinking - if they lay off everybody here - who's going to have the money to buy anything

Are you kidding??? Its not congresses job to regulate who/what/where jobs go to. These are private businesses. While I understand your point, do you REALLY want big brother to tell you how to run your business? I don't think so. It's called free enterprise and that is the foundation of Capitolism, is for you to make your money the best and legal way you can, and if that means you ship things offshore to get a better profit margin then so be it.

Do I agree with it.......hell no, but you can't have a democratic society and then expect the goverment to regulate it hence......socialism.

I go back and say, it's not congresses fault....these companies ran themselves into the ground with the piss poor management and grossly overpaid execs who continue to bleed the company dry and run it into the ground....this isn't a govenerment issue, its company issue.....IMO

quote:

Originally posted by kittmaster:
Are you kidding??? Its not congresses job to regulate who/what/where jobs go to. These are private businesses.

After private businesses finish sending all the jobs overseas - who's going to pay unemployment? Federal government? So then why shouldn't federal government have a say - if they are the ones picking up the tab....I'm just sayin'

If there are no 'private' jobs, because for some reason private employers find it difficult in US to make profit, (see Corporate Taxes, among other things ) there is then no income for govt. to tax, you wont be able to pay your fed income tax, state income tax, sales tax, gas tax, property tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, social security tax, ad valorem taxes, excise tax, transfer tax, AMT tax, telephone line and use tax, license fees, permit fees, etc....

So...errr no the govt's won't have your money to give back. Govt does not create wealth it only takes away from created wealth, earnings, income.

NOTE: Before anyone does a quick quote on this post, READ THE ENTIRE THING FIRST, before you jump on any one point.

There are many jobs that can't/will never ever leave the country.

The problem with this country is people are just plain fckin lazy. Many are not flexible, can only do one thing, many don't have degrees....

Let's be honest, I know that life throws people curve balls, things don't work out, etc etc. But most have a lifetime to make themselves better but don't. This world loves technology, but doesn't want to do anything to be a "part of the system" to make it grow, they just want everything handled and to just "make it work".

THAT is one of the many reasons that we are in the state we are in. Let's face it, I'm not gonna pay some union worker $35 plus benefits and pensions/401k/life/ etc.... to put screws in the taillights.....when I can have it done for $2 overseas....if YOU owned the business, you'd do exactly the same thing. Its about making money, people are SECOND in the equation of business....look around, there is NO loyality to workers....enron comes to mind....

People getting laid off 6 months before retirement to the company doesn't have to pay a pension after 40 years plus working for that company....its no wonder such examples and many more are causing all this instability.

Consumer confidence is at an altime low, the president of the US is an idiot, we are in two wars that should have NEVER started... the list goes on and on....

This country really needs an enima....and its happening right now, its very sad that it has to happen this way, but we've been running way to fat for a long long long time. Companies need to look at how to do thing smart, faster and better to stay competitive.

I feel aweful that these people are losing jobs, BUT, if your a sale cashier or a floor salesman (which are trying at times) but produce nothing, how stable do you expect that job to be? A sad truth is that McDonalds is always hiring, and that's not to belittle anyone, but if people don't have skillsets for the types of emerging markets like computers, electronics, automotive.....then they don't deserve to have jobs. You can't put unskilled labor in a position that needs expertise.......and THOSE skillsets are global, and will never disappear "overseas".

I'm sure I'll get picked apart for some of these comments........I'm OK with that, NONE of my statements are meant to hurt, belittle, humiliate or harm anyone or anything, they are just a point of fact to counter your question of "what if all the jobs go overseas"...........just think about it.....

The only point of contention from me would be that degrees are not needed for some jobs where employers seem to require them over experience. Does it really take a degree to be able to build a website? How about logos, graphics, and such? Do you really need a degree to be a good mechanic?

Overall, employers are putting too much emphasis on a piece of paper. Just because a person graduated college with a degree does not mean that person is even knowledgable in the subject of said degree.

Person A - Has a bachelor's degree, no experience, graduated last in class

Person B - Did not go to college, has 10 years experience

Whom would you choose?

quote:

Originally posted by Fatdog:
The only point of contention from me would be that degrees are not needed for some jobs where employers seem to require them over experience.

Does it really take a degree to be able to build a website? <<<<<<<< Depends on site...amazon.com....yep.......i.e. database knowledge, dynamic html, etc etc...basic site...probably not

How about logos, graphics, and such? <<<<<<<< Most likely not, but how do you sort out the people who can......and those who can't?

Do you really need a degree to be a good mechanic? <<<<<<<< With today car's....absolutely....most of the car is I2C, SPI and other serial protocols, and everything is controlled by computers. 60's cars....hell no, but would be helpful

Overall, employers are putting too much emphasis on a piece of paper. <<<<<<<<<< I disagree, it show a very specific defined level of compitence criteria to have been met.


Just because a person graduated college with a degree does not mean that person is even knowledgable in the subject of said degree. <<<<<<<<<< this is absolutely correct, but how do you gauge this especially in this market of cutting back......its a finicial risk for some companies.

Person A - Has a bachelor's degree, no experience, graduated last in class <<<<<<<<<< depends on the level of the job itself

Person B - Did not go to college, has 10 years experience <<<<<<<<<< Again how do you gauge this?

Whom would you choose? <<<<<<<<<< Depends specifically on the job requirements and level of the position.

I've commented above also, my goal is NOT to say a degreed person is "better" than a non-degreed person......because in many cases it is simply not true. I've see people with degrees who are complete and bumbling idiots but got a job because of the degree, and also the other way around

But if a company is hiring for X job and it is a known requirement that you must have a BS or better......then a person with 20 years experience without the degree will have no shot.

How bout this, if a person is that smart and that good, most colleges will allow you to challenge the core course for credit to accelerate a degree and take less than 6-9 months to acquire the needed degree based on his "experience". If a person is THAT good with experience, then they should look into an accerated degree. Why don't people do that?

If you've ever searched for a job (lately), and it specifically states X degree or equivalent.......then someone with nothing will not have a shot even if they can run circles around some with a degree and minimal experience.......while its completely unfair, the job market is struggling, all of these layoffs are flooding the market with people, there is NO way to figure out someone with a resume of experience only will be "better" at the job than someone trained in that field in which the degree applies.

If I have a choice (as I hire engineers for where I work), I will hire based on the criteria that I put in the advert to get the people to apply. If I expect a X degree or better, there is a pretty good chance that I'll get 200+ resumes for it (with todays job engines) and I would completely disregard non-degreed candidates regardless of how many years of experience........it sucks, but that is how most teched companies are.

We had a guy with 25 years of experience but only an associates in electronics, guy was very smart, and the glue of the section, but he would never be called or paid the engineer he was very capable of, because he didn't have a BS to support it........completely sucked, but was fair since all engineering REQUIRED a BS degree......his experience accounted for nothing, it allowed him to stay employed, and hit his glass ceiling. But fair is fair to the other engineers who when through the process of acquiring the required degrees for said position.

Sucks, but the way the WORLD operates.

hey kitt --you are right -so the following scenario is not a 'pick apart' --but it is the 50% that you left out-----------

1. the $35/hour guys get fired
2. the accountants parade to wall street with the great new savings // projections
3. the company stock -- immediately soars
for the next 2 quarters
4. the brilliant execs declare their 'well earned' million $$ bonuses --- yipee

5. the $35 guys go on welfare --raise our taxes
6. the $2 guys from overseas cant afford that tailight

7. by the 3rd quarter --
and AFTER all the huge bonuses have been fully distributed --and the 'in-crowd' sold their soaring stocks--
there are less $35 guys to buy 2 big pig SUVS

8. SO...the sales drop by 20%
9. stock plummets -- more plants close -more layoffs

10. by the 4th quarter --it goes like this:`

"we are too big to fail --bail us out"

--------------------
still --to get more 'global' about all this:

1. the $2 guy will NEVER save enough to buy any car
2. he can buy OR MAKE!!! a bicycle -- from re-cycled parts
3. he causes no air or water pollution

4. he is in shape and healthy
-------------

bottom line: there are LOTS of considerations

quote:

Originally posted by enskanker:

So...errr no the govt's won't have your money to give back. Govt does not create wealth it only takes away from created wealth, earnings, income.

This is not entirely accurate. Federal government can (and does) print money - as much as they want or need. So they can give back...
Only state governments are not allowed to have budget deficit....

And Ira said it best - if you lay off $35/hour people - then who is going to have the money to buy the cars built with $2/hour parts. Companies need to make their product as cheap as they can, but they make that product to sell it. And if everybody earns a minimum wage - nobody will be able to afford anything...

Very valid points by all. My two cents are:

Regarding degrees, it will really depend on the industry as Kitt said. Surely you would hope a surgeon went to school. But what I have found to be a more prevalent requirement than degrees is "continuing education". Not only that, if you can demonstrate that you have consistently made and saved money for your clients, the degree will go out the window. This is really true in construction, an industry that, as previously mentioned, will not leave this country.

That being said, I will admit there is a large number of illegals in construction. But, if you ask any honest contractor, they want to pay a fair wage. You see, in my industry like a few others, you hit a peak, a physical one. This creates room for younger guys, but they think that they are supposed to walk in and make a mint. So they get shown the door and Paco and his brothers become the new roofing crew.

I'll be the first to say it's not right using illegals. It's like bringing in your outsourcing. But until we have people willing to pay some dues, we'll have some people saying they can't find work. This leads me to the kids from my generation who were taught that "we" were the bottom feeders. Become an accountant, programmer, some interior manager or whatever. (There are more Dockers wearing so called managers out there it's unbelievable.) "As long as you didn't have to get your fingers dirty..." Our skilled labor force went to crap and unions raped companies to keep the older codgers happy. This eventually lead to our country becoming a "service oriented" nation than a nation of producers. Hell, anything other than a computer engineer, say a mechanical engineer was even frowned on since it was viewed as "grunt work" and not the wave of the future. So let's outsource the jobs, because hey, we don't have the workforce, and the ones who showed up we can't afford.

There are a ton of things that need to be fixed in this country. And it needs to start with the basic premise of hard work being fairly rewarded. And right alongside it, open fair and honest stewardship. You can make all the money you think you can handle, selling whatever, but if you don't invest it wisely back in your people and your product, you'll get killed. You can't do one without the other.

And regarding the unions...

The auto companies almost had their bailout...til the unions said we want to keep sucking the till dry. Well, I said elsewhere, the auto industry in 'Bama is fine with no union and they spend about 45% less per employee. And the ones I know who work for Daimler Benz, Toyota, Hyundai, etc. are very well compensed and happy. And will shoot a union rep on sight.

quote:

Originally posted by oldskool69:
And will shoot a union rep on sight.

That is funny!

So vladi, since the Fed prints the money why do they need to tax you?

In the good economy they do not need to print the money - since the taxes cover all the federal expenses - which was the case with our previous president - when we had a budget surplus. But when our current president started a couple of wars and reduced the taxes for the rich (mostly) - the surplus went bye-bye. And to cover the deficit - the government started printing some *extra* money - since there wasn't enough tax revenue coming in.
Once the economy starts getting better - those *extra* money will be taken out of circulation - hopefully without too many people getting filthy rich in process of doing that.

The more filthy rich the better, as long as its gained by integrous means.

Well.....by that I meant to say - when money are taken out of circulation - there are all kinds of opportunities for well connected people - who might just steal them - instead of destroying them. Kind of like a movie Mad Money....

Amen brother, I'm off to Office Depot for some post-its.

Fk Degrees. I wipe my tail end w/ mine. The continuing education system is one of the biggest scams there are. It's ALL BS, period!!! Work around it!! Oh and have a nice day.