there is an interesting discussion on-going right now -

seems to be  hidden  in the ' cougar 880 ' thread ?

hoping it may get more attention with its own thread ...

==================

a common scenario is the non-iinvolved // non- collector who finds

a very desirable boomer or walkman, etc in grammys attic ..

so he/she joins s2g for a one post ad --to try and make a quick sale -

and without all the joinings and ' red-tape ' required to become an ebay & paypal member.

as AO posted --we as buyer// collectors then decide if we want to assume the risk of

spending $$$ with a one post newbie with NO ebay//paypal protection --

and with no s2g feedback concerns - as the one post seller may never care about his reputation on this site --

 but all these factors considered -- we MIGHT be getting the first looks -

pre- craigslist // pre-ebay at some rare good deals

IMO --this is not abuse of the site --it may just be the seller did some research

and discovered where and how to quickly and easily reach his collector market..

= US !!

i further think that creating a ' minimum post ' requirement just leads to

a series of useless posts --and may eliminate our potential opportunities to

buy  items we want -- fast... and at below ebay prices 

so --as long as we can accept the buyer beware risks -

i suggest that any newbie sales efforts here are welcome

I can see both sides to this I suppose...it can be irritating when they join, post something for sale then don't return, but equally I've seen ones where someone only came on to sell a box but then communicated well and a good deal was made with both parties very happy.  Then they never return....no problem with that.

I suppose caveat emptor (see I speak Latin ) is probably the lesser of the possible evils

CAVE CANEM

in most cases --a pure novice seller may have no clue at how to test anything-

surely will have " no tapes " ....

post just one poor photo --if at all -

and a brief // vague description ??

but still --

This sums it up perfectly Ira.

Bottom line......buyer beware, but posting it here to the salivating masses certainly can "inflate" the final price on Ebay....but then again another adage comes to mind....

Supply and demand. If someone comes here flogging a late nighties COBY egg box...good luck

beware of the dog?!

Its probably obvious how I feel about it.

I weigh up those scenarios and figure that the "norm" and "usual" is people fishing for value to put on eBay to sell for as much profit as possible, which as brutus says adds to the final selling price. When weighing it up its about percentages - low percentage chance of newbies coming here to make a cheap deal to sell a valuable piece of kit as opposed to high percentage chance that newbies come here to fish and sell on eBay at profit.

Looking back over the history the latter seems to be the "norm" or the "usual".

If there is a slight chance (low percentages) that someone gets a deal out of newbies coming here to sell something valuable for cheap then happy days but I'll believe it when I see it.

One Shotting newbies that have no interest but to fish for price and go to eBay IS desirable however

The other problem we have is that quite often the seller has no idea what he's got until one of us PMs him saying 'sell it to me for £500, me, me, me !!!' etc'.  Then the bargain becomes a bidding war amongst good friends. 

What say we try this.... Every listing whether it's from a newbie or vet member has to have a price otherwise the post gets locked?  If a poster is unsure of what to ask then he has to post his (or her) finding in a separate 'what is my XXXXX worth?' thread thus ensuring that discussion about price and dealings re potential sales remain in separate threads?  There' s enough of us here who are able to value stuff quite accurately. The poster can then list the item in our for sale section or go to eBay without putting anyone's nose out.   

Any good?

It will be up to all of us to police this, not just mods.

AO, I think its a reasonable compromise to trial and tweak as we go if necessary.

AO --that seems fair and fine

+1

Perhaps we should BOLD/ UNDERLINE/ RECOLOUR this condition of membership on the application page or make it an agreeable clicky before membership can be approved. Might save some headaches down the road.

Thoughts?

hail .

Let's get some more feedback from other members and if we're agreed then we'll trial it.

New posters who miss the new policy can simply be alerted to the fact that the need to add a price otherwise the thread will be locked.  Obviously this won't stop others PM'ing them with wild offers but sadly that's life, but at least it will keep discussions on the forum fair and civil.

Oh, thanks Ira for making this more of an issue than a casual discussion.  I edited the title slightly to reflect this, hopefully we can solicit more thoughts from others.

in an ' off-topic ' defense of any confused but innocent newbie-

i have , for example --as my inheritance -- a VERY old mandolin that my dad

left for me --it might be over 100 years old ?? maybe 200 ??

it might be worthless junk -- of perhaps worth US$100 or $2000 ??

its ' seems' complete and working and original - i have no idea about any

vintage//antique musical instruments or their values -

so --just to find out -- if its rare ? if it has value -

.............

i would join a music collectors site - post one photo--to ask all about it -

and it may be a ONE time post -

no harm to the site intended  --just being a newbie 

its my expierance they a selfless site is a good site let's keep this site free and easy if someone want's to get info. on a price and flee good on them and good on us for helping them beside's if a person appose's what a newbie is doing on the site they may be better to not get involved with the newbie's request. keep it simple !

sounds like a great idea Chris

there was a one shot noob asking for a part for a box last week,i know for a fact that box is destined for the bay as soon as he gets that part.

no forum input off this guy..just on the take.

its a small world the boombox game in the UK.

1) My gut feelings is: CAVE CANEM/KILL THEM ALL (so hat off to Claret and bison)

One example for all: if I need an estimate for something I want to sell and I have no idea about what it's worth, I can always ask a specialist in the real world rather than trolling the virtual space of the true enthusiast. It's all that simple.

2) Yet reason tells me that AO -- and the majority of members here --  is probably right. Why deny ourselves the possibility of a bargain? And, more importantly: why practice whatever form of censorship? This site is great precisely because it encourages self-regulation rather than asking for a rigid set of behavioral rules. I love it the way it is, and I would hardly change it --were it not for the annoying presence of the --ditto

3) Never the less, at another level reason meets gut feelings, leaving me more undecided than ever about what to do: all in all, however, tendentially hostile to 1-Shot Newbies Why? If I think of the constant disproportion between members and guests at every access, I cannot stop thinking that many of the observers are sellers whose only reason to be here is to inflate the price of their items. Our discussions already provide them with market researches in real time; so why on earth should we grant them also free advertising?

4) AO's proposal seems very sensible. Maybe it's possible to perfect it? I remember reading a post by a new member who complained about the sale section of s2go. I forgot the details but maybe somebody here has better memory of it. He compared our sale/trade section to the same in a site devoted to watch collectors --I think it was a German site. He said that there there was a basic form to fill in by advertisers, which included pics, a general description of the item and a price or, as an alternative, a trading proposal. I saw more than one point in his post, but I don't know if this may work here.

5) If not, well... CAVE CANEM/KILL THEM ALL

A structured selling format sounds like a solid idea to start with. Can't see much harm in having a manditory price listed.

3) Never the less, at another level reason meets gut feelings, leaving me more undecided than ever about what to do: all in all, however, tendentially hostile to 1-Shot Newbies Why? If I think of the constant disproportion between members and guests at every access, I cannot stop thinking that many of the observers are sellers whose only reason to be here is to inflate the price of their items. Our discussions already provide them with market researches in real time; so why on earth should we grant them also free advertising?

 

5) If not, well... CAVE CANEM/KILL THEM ALL

Amen Brother !!

BP's post is enlighting, as far as I am concerned. Let's recap: he's a honorable ebay seller, with 10+ years of positive feedback. Fine, I wish there were more ebayers with a comparable resume. Yet at some point he joins a site devoted to portable audio where selling and trading is undoubtedly an important part of the overall activity. Not, however, the only one. Does he join because he wants to be part of a community, to contribute to the discussion with what he knows best/loves more? Or does he join because he has a one-sided interest?

Of course, there's nothing wrong in joining a site in order to fulfill an interest which may cover only part of the focus of that site. What I question here is the fact that, whenever money is involved, we take the discussion into another level. I have just had a look at BP's posts and guess what? They are mostly about the items he sells on ebay. So here he gets two things for free: advertisement for his ebay sales, plus private messages asking him to sell outside the bay.

Actually he gets a third one: the inevitable inflating of his ebay auctions, but this is the added bonus produced by advertising per se, not the byproduct of an evil scheme of BP's mind. I want to be clear on this point: BP is not alone here, as many a member who have turned pro do exactly what he does. So please no offence BP, as you are a paradigm, an example, and by no means a scapegoat, at least in the line of reasoning I offer here.

I may be wrong, but as far as I understand, this site was born out of real interest and passion in portable audio. This involves more than selling/trading among members. But let's admit there's a right to advertise member's sales here. Shouldn't other members have the right to ask for regulations, in some way, of an activity that outside s2go would demand fees? Shouldn't other members benefit from their status of s2goers, for instance by getting meaningful discounts on the ebay prices, whenever the advertiser is also an ebay seller? Or by getting first  choice here before the item goes to the bay?

I think they should. So I wouldn't go so far as to say that the selling/trading section should be strictly devoted only to people who have no ebay account. This simply goes too far, and is against the carefree spirit of the site. Never the less, I would ask for some form of regulation for advertisements. A simple one, a fair one. Is that too much, considering how much intrusive, pervasive, insistent is everyday free advertisement on this site -- I mean for ebay items. Sometimes so close to spamming that I wonder if I am on a site for people who really care for the culture of portable audios --with all its implication: music, habits, language, behavior, and so on and so forth-- or in a virtual mall where everybody is trying to get the most from me while giving back the least. Often even less.

Sound worth a go to me...

I agree 100% with Samovar on all aspects.

Agree with this above

Only here to Share & Learn, Not Sell & Buy.

Main interest is how to do preventative maintenance

My .02

Such an interesting topic !

I just want to express my opinion on this matter.

I feel too that the site sometimes is being abused

by newbies for a quick profit on selling boomboxes walkmans

etc what can be done is before someone decides to sell to have

a minimum number of posts .

I can understand the point of the ''useless posts''

but this imo is not a problem and the reason is that

when someone decides to post and really wants to be part of a community

that automatically makes him/her responsible in a way.

Lets say someone has a minimum number for example

of 400 points to sale something

either else he cant come here and spam, phising just to make a quick profit.

Moderators , members and collectors sure know how to put

those kind of newbies in the right place,

either by commenting on their posts or by deleting such posts.

Got to agree with this lines by Samovar

''if I need an estimate for something I want to sell and I have no idea about what it's worth, I can always ask a specialist in the real world rather than trolling the virtual space of the true enthusiast. It's all that simple.''