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Nakamichi ZX-9 restoration

retrodos - 2012-10-06 14:08

Bought this one off eBay, seller claim it was AS-IS just needed ider tire. Needed alot more then belts and Ider tire. To make matter worst someone been inside this one and made a mess. 12vdc is missing, so no lights or logic, or power to DD board and crap solder work, were somone made botched attempt at repair and damage traces. Also DD motor board wasn't even screw in, just screw it in place, as I just rebuilted the transport already. Now to fix the PSU.

 

 This is what it does

   

IMG_2673

 

Was going to test the regulators as notice no 12vdc to dd board and look at fuses and wasn't blown, then found this, look like they burned the traces and then gaveup as they didn't even bother to solder. More likely said at this point "Let just throw it on eBay AS-IS". I learn don't buy broken units off of eBay anymore. Had to also cleanup the wiring due to they didn't bother to wire tie anything. 

 

 

IMG_2675

retrodos - 2012-10-06 14:23

The regulators and bridge removed and traces cleanup.

 

 

IMG_2676

retrodos - 2012-10-06 15:10

Found bad bridge rectifier replaced both and 12vdc regulator, replaced the broken trace and deck now came back to life fully. 

 

 

IMG_2678

IMG_2681

IMG_2680

 

dinosaur - 2012-10-07 06:10

Well done! 

One of the finest decks Nakamichi ever made as far as i'm concerned.

toocool4 - 2012-10-07 07:16

Don’t you just hate it when people lie on eBay?

 

It would be nice to know what you think of the sound once you have finished restoring it?

 

Can you do a comparison to the Dragon you just restored? I have never rated the Dragon, I have the CR-7 which sounds much better to me.

 

I have heard that the ZX-9 is only second to 1000 ZXL, the 1000 ZXL is amazing.

samovar - 2012-10-07 07:20

Originally Posted by toocool4:

Don’t you just hate it when people lie on eBay?

don't tell me...  

samovar - 2012-10-07 07:26

Originally Posted by toocool4:

the 1000 ZXL is amazing.

also its price is:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAKAMI...;hash=item43b05af216

toocool4 - 2012-10-07 08:01

Originally Posted by samovar:
Originally Posted by toocool4:

Don’t you just hate it when people lie on eBay?

don't tell me...  

 

Originally Posted by samovar:
Originally Posted by toocool4:

the 1000 ZXL is amazing.

also its price is:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAKAMI...;hash=item43b05af216

Everything I buy on eBay now, I take what the seller says with a pinch of salt.

 

Gold? I don’t think so not for me. I would not buy if I had the money for 2 good reasons, 1 hate gold, 2 you cannot get parts anymore for the 1000 ZXL.

 

I take my CR-7 to Nakamichi UK every 2 or so years  for service and they will not look at 1000 ZXL as they can no longer get parts for it. My friend has the standard 1000 ZXL and when it dies that will be the end of it.

retrodos - 2012-10-07 09:57

Originally Posted by toocool4:
Originally Posted by samovar:
Originally Posted by toocool4:

Don’t you just hate it when people lie on eBay?

don't tell me...  

 

Originally Posted by samovar:
Originally Posted by toocool4:

the 1000 ZXL is amazing.

also its price is:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAKAMI...;hash=item43b05af216

Everything I buy on eBay now, I take what the seller says with a pinch of salt.

 

Gold? I don’t think so not for me. I would not buy if I had the money for 2 good reasons, 1 hate gold, 2 you cannot get parts anymore for the 1000 ZXL.

 

I take my CR-7 to Nakamichi UK every 2 or so years  for service and they will not look at 1000 ZXL as they can no longer get parts for it. My friend has the standard 1000 ZXL and when it dies that will be the end of it.


You can find parts for the 1000 ZXL, uses the NAK classic transport, by far their best transport, same as the dragon. Just receive one that had no logic and meter won't work, no 400hz tone and hi wow and flutter, as rubber was worn. Finish restoring it. Had to replace all orange PP caps in all boards, replaced CMOS switch in display, bad IC on logic side replaced, converted to LED lights for panel, replaced pinch rollers, belts, ider tire and aligned transport and electronics. After rebuilted was getting 20-22KHz freq. response, FLAT (+/- 0.5dB). To bad it wasn't mines

 

Most shop just don't work on these decks, as they are harder to service, the NAK classic transport is a little tricky and not for the rookie and you also have to replace capacitors, you can find parts as easy as easy as you can find parts for the CR7. CR7 uses the sankyo transport, alot easier to service, reason why shops including myseft love these. Takes minutes vs hours. 

 

For those that need the LED's, use these

 

http://www.lc-led.com/View/itemNumber/586

 

toocool4 - 2012-10-07 12:52

Link to Nakamichi Service UK http://www.bowersandwilkins.co...michi%20service.html

dinosaur - 2012-10-07 14:26

B & W have just serviced both my CR-7E and BX-300. It's certainly not cheap but,at least i know it'll be good for the next few years at least!

Got a Revox B710 being serviced at the mo'. Can you believe all three units died within a few months of each other!

Had to put my 'spare' Revox (B215) into work. 

retrodos - 2012-10-07 15:48

Did they die after being restore, or before?

dinosaur - 2012-10-07 15:56

Definitely before!

They're in tip top working condition now,even though i'm enjoying my time spent with the Revox B215! 

lapis - 2012-10-12 06:57

I'm sure that this cassette deck does not use belts. It uses DD drive which is disc/direct drive.

retrodos - 2012-10-12 07:33

Originally Posted by Lapis:

I'm sure that this cassette deck does not use belts. It uses DD drive which is disc/direct drive.

It uses belts

lapis - 2012-10-12 08:17

Originally Posted by retrodos:
Originally Posted by Lapis:

I'm sure that this cassette deck does not use belts. It uses DD drive which is disc/direct drive.

It uses belts

The ZX-7 uses belts, not the ZX-9.

retrodos - 2012-10-12 08:42

Originally Posted by Lapis:
Originally Posted by retrodos:
Originally Posted by Lapis:

I'm sure that this cassette deck does not use belts. It uses DD drive which is disc/direct drive.

It uses belts

The ZX-7 uses belts, not the ZX-9.

The ZX-9 uses a belt to to drive the other capstan flywheel one capstan is the motor rotor, while the other driven by belt, from the first capstan. On the ZX-7 both capstan are driven by belt by a separate motor, that the differance.

 

The direct drive label on most decks is a marketing gimmick I hate to say, the only deck that uses true directdrive is the revox b215, no belts or idler, for both reels and capstans, all 4 motors and control by light gate system on the Revox. Dragon is the only other deck as it driven by true directdrive capstan, as both capstan flywheel are the rotor for the motors. Reason why the dragon has lower wow and flutter and I prefer it over the cr7a that overhyped anyday as dragon uses a better builted transport and sound better when overhualed.

 

lapis - 2012-10-14 10:18

Originally Posted by retrodos:
Originally Posted by Lapis:
Originally Posted by retrodos:
Originally Posted by Lapis:

I'm sure that this cassette deck does not use belts. It uses DD drive which is disc/direct drive.

It uses belts

The ZX-7 uses belts, not the ZX-9.

The ZX-9 uses a belt to to drive the other capstan flywheel one capstan is the motor rotor, while the other driven by belt, from the first capstan. On the ZX-7 both capstan are driven by belt by a separate motor, that the differance.

 

The direct drive label on most decks is a marketing gimmick I hate to say, the only deck that uses true directdrive is the revox b215, no belts or idler, for both reels and capstans, all 4 motors and control by light gate system on the Revox. Dragon is the only other deck as it driven by true directdrive capstan, as both capstan flywheel are the rotor for the motors. Reason why the dragon has lower wow and flutter and I prefer it over the cr7a that overhyped anyday as dragon uses a better builted transport and sound better when overhualed.

 

Dragon used the Classic transport whereas CR-7 uses the Sankyo transport. Dragon has more analog sound whereas CR-7 had more digital sound because Dragon is older, CR-7 is newer.

david.quinn - 2012-12-17 16:17

I have plenty of experience with Nakamichi.

I have had both the Dragon and still own a CR7. I can tell you I wouldn't swap my Cr7 for a Dragon. The Dragon is the most perfect recording deck ever, however playback is it's downfall. I have recorded on both decks and playing back a Dragon recording on the CR7 is the ultimate. The problem is I can't afford both. I was unimpressed so much by the playback on the Dragon that I took it to the other side of the country (Perth to Sydney) to try and get it resolved. It went into 3 shops in Perth before I took it to Sydney (head office for Nakamichi Australia). All the tests showed the deck was well within tollerences in all respects except were you need it most, your ears.

It cost me a small fortune in attempted repairs and ended up selling it at a loss.

My opinion is the play head is a compromise as it is an auto reverse deck. I think cramming the one playhead into this machine was a mistake and the sound seems compressed.

my pre-owned Nakamichi's include 580M, 1000 MkII, ZX7, ZX9, Dragon and Cr7 

retrodos - 2012-12-17 17:43

Originally Posted by David Quinn:

I have plenty of experience with Nakamichi.

I have had both the Dragon and still own a CR7. I can tell you I wouldn't swap my Cr7 for a Dragon. The Dragon is the most perfect recording deck ever, however playback is it's downfall. I have recorded on both decks and playing back a Dragon recording on the CR7 is the ultimate. The problem is I can't afford both. I was unimpressed so much by the playback on the Dragon that I took it to the other side of the country (Perth to Sydney) to try and get it resolved. It went into 3 shops in Perth before I took it to Sydney (head office for Nakamichi Australia). All the tests showed the deck was well within tollerences in all respects except were you need it most, your ears.

It cost me a small fortune in attempted repairs and ended up selling it at a loss.

My opinion is the play head is a compromise as it is an auto reverse deck. I think cramming the one playhead into this machine was a mistake and the sound seems compressed.

my pre-owned Nakamichi's include 580M, 1000 MkII, ZX7, ZX9, Dragon and Cr7 


Own pretty much all models Nakamichi's decks and restored them to detail. Dragon the best sounding as far as playback goes, does better overall in low end response. In order to get better results you do have to upgrade all cmos switches and change pretty much all capacitors as they do fall around 30% tolerance with high ESR. Transport of Dragon is also better built overall. Actually have two direct drive capstan and uses the good classic and not the cheap sankyo transport where motor develop dead spots due to brushes are not true carbon, also only one capstan is the motor, the other is driven off a belt and you don't get any cue functions.

 

Dragon sure not sound compressed, etheir head tilt or azmuith off alignment, or head is worn and need to be replace. Only a few I know that properly service these decks, etheir ESLABS, Willy Hermann, dottor walkman, or me myseft.

 

Don't get me wrong CR7 is a great deck, but don't consider it better then the dragon, it just that most people need their dragons fully serviced. Plus most like the CR7 more due to the "auto calibration" feature for recording. If you couldn't get it sounding right, then your best bet was to sell it off, after it all depends on your ears.

 

david.quinn - 2012-12-17 18:01

Thanks for your response. I wouldn't argue with you but I had my play head replaced amongst other things. Maybe as you say, the service agent may not have been up to speed with the Dragon. All tests apparently were well within specifications and tollerences but my ears told me different. Sort of wish I still had it but I was never happy with playback performance of my machine. I would love to hear a properley serviced Dragon in that case.

 

Cheers

lapis - 2012-12-18 05:18

Originally Posted by David Quinn:

My opinion is the play head is a compromise as it is an auto reverse deck. I think cramming the one playhead into this machine was a mistake and the sound seems compressed.

Auto-Reverse decks does not affect the sound actually. It is the head azimuth that matters. Also remember that the Dragon used a 4-track head and that does not move (the NAAC is the one causing to move in the Dragon).

david.quinn - 2012-12-18 05:45

I realize the azimuth is critical for correct playback but my Dragon didn't get there, it sounded quite flat and lacked top end clarity regardless of any adjustments. The playback on my CR7 was superior and crystal clear. Obviously not a good example of a Dragon from what I hear from you guys.

Thanks for your opinions, it is taken on board and I won't bag the Dragon any more.

toocool4 - 2012-12-18 07:31

David Quinn you kept the better deck as far as I am concerned, I prefer the CR-7 over the Dragon any day. Dragon over rated over priced. I would not trade in my CR-7 for 2 Dragons.

retrodos - 2012-12-18 07:59

Originally Posted by toocool4:

David Quinn you kept the better deck as far as I am concerned, I prefer the CR-7 over the Dragon any day. Dragon over rated over priced. I would not trade in my CR-7 for 2 Dragons.

Some prefer the CR7 over the dragon due to it more neutral sounding and "auto calibration" feature for recording. Plus much easier to serviced, or have serviced. Won't say Dragon is overrated, as it not by any means. It a much better builted deck overall, more features, true directdrive capstan system and better sounding deck when "upgraded", otherwise about the same if not upgraded. Reason upgrades make a big different, are due to the fact, cmos switches are of older revision and sound to clinical, but once upgraded, it a different deck.  

 

Just the same as people saying the d6c, or dc2 sound better then the dd9. The dd9 sounds much better then both. The d6c would be second, never really liked the dc2.  Do Alignment of the head correctly and correct the impedance on the coils of the head on reverse and forward side and dd9 will blow the d6c out of the water. Yes not as loud but internal amp can still deliver the lowend much better, just wish it had a lineout jack, only downfall, as the dc2 have one. 

toocool4 - 2012-12-18 08:25

Originally Posted by retrodos:
Originally Posted by toocool4:

David Quinn you kept the better deck as far as I am concerned, I prefer the CR-7 over the Dragon any day. Dragon over rated over priced. I would not trade in my CR-7 for 2 Dragons.

Some prefer the CR7 over the dragon due to it more neutral sounding and "auto calibration" feature for recording. Plus much easier to serviced, or have serviced. Won't say Dragon is overrated, as it not by any means. It a much better builted deck overall, more features, true directdrive capstan system and better sounding deck when "upgraded", otherwise about the same if not upgraded. Reason upgrades make a big different, are due to the fact, cmos switches are of older revision and sound to clinical, but once upgraded, it a different deck.  

 

Just the same as people saying the d6c, or dc2 sound better then the dd9. The dd9 sounds much better then both. The d6c would be second, never really liked the dc2.  Do Alignment of the head correctly and correct the impedance on the coils of the head on reverse and forward side and dd9 will blow the d6c out of the water. Yes not as loud but internal amp can still deliver the lowend much better, just wish it had a lineout jack, only downfall, as the dc2 have one. 

Hi retrodos yes the Dragon may sound better once a tech has worked their magic on it.

 

But out of the box brand new, I have heard the Dragon Vs CR-7 and the CR-7 wins.

 

Also about the DD9 Vs D6C Vs DC2 again I prefer the D6C. I have had my DD9 upgraded and it still comes in behind the D6C in fact a long way behind.   

nickfish - 2012-12-18 08:56

My issue with the CR-7 is that it did not push any boundaries. Sure, it did sound good straight from the box but that would be missing the point of the Dragon and other Nakamichi's. I have the RX505 and Dragon because they sound great and broke new ground by solving the inherent problems associated with auto reverse mechanisms and with azimuth errors on the Dragon. What new tricks or technology did the CR7 bring? Mine are both fully serviced and upgraded by Nakamichi UK and are wonderful to use and listen to but my 'go to' deck for every day? Nakamichi 682ZX. I never expected it to sound so brilliant and cost a fraction of the others. I got one for £240 including a remote control; in it's original box! Rather better value than the exotic ones and way more satisfying! I did not rate the later machines like the BX range or CR series, and they are worth much less, so it would seem that with the exception of the CR7 for which people will pay huge sums, most audiophiles agree.

 

I have never heard a DD9 but even if it sounds about the same as a D6C it is remarkable for being so compact. Could you chuck a DD9 around for 20 years as a journalist, or for that matter make recordings with it? Horses for courses. Each is an outstanding product in it's own right.

 

I have heard a great many Aiwa machines though and if their capacitors had been able to last longer I would be able to say that their sound quality was better than any Sony. Hard to prove now they are all dead!

toocool4 - 2012-12-18 09:16

Breaking now grounds and bringing new technology, does not always mean better.

 

Sometimes simple is just best, an iPod is technologically more advanced than a Walkman but does it sound better than a good Walkman?

 

With all this new stuff the Tech get’s in the way of the music, I want my music to sound good. I don’t care if my tape or record player does not turn itself over, I can do it myself. I don’t want Tech in the way of my music.  

nickfish - 2012-12-18 10:21

I think that the fact that Nakamichi pushed the boundaries of frequency response helped to elevate the compact cassette beyond it's humble origins and the auto azimuth alignment means that my tapes that were recorded on Kenwood, Akai, Yamaha and other machines as well as pre-recorded tapes sound great today when played on the Dragon, and all without my having to fiddle with it manually. That would get in the way of my music!

 

The new technology that appeared in the earlier machines influenced the later ones and helped to justify the prices that they sold for; and frankly the CR7 was nowhere near as well built nor versatile as the Dragon, so the prices new were somewhat scandalous and the values now are hard to justify except that you can buy a near Dragon quality machine for similar money and the service and repair costs will be much lower. The sound quality differences are subjective and you like what you like but Nakamichi and their earlier ground breaking machines need to be given credit for making it possible to make a good machine with simpler (cheaper) components albeit for similarly high purchase prices when new, which made more money for them!

 

I agree with you totally though; gimmicks and toys are only of any use when they improve the sound quality or make your listening more enjoyable.

toocool4 - 2012-12-18 11:22

I can still playback and enjoy tapes made anywhere. The  CR-7 get's the best of  them, yes I have to fiddle with the Azimuth from time to time. The CR-7 does not do it automatically for me like the Dragon, but I have a remote to help me do that.
I still get the best of any tape and less to go wrong compared to the Dragon.

we just have to agree to disagree on the Dragon Vs CR-7.

lapis - 2012-12-19 06:39

Sound quality subjects are very subjective. For example, CR-7 sounds colder whereas Dragon sounds warmer. Depending on whether a person likes it or not.

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 01:19

Written by Toocool4:
"Also about the DD9 Vs D6C Vs DC2 again I prefer the D6C. I have had my DD9 upgraded and it still comes in behind the D6C in fact a long way behind."

 

Let me clarify this controversy, with my thoughts and my experience. First of all, I apologize for my bad English.
With regard to these issues (Dragon Vs CR-7, DD9 Vs D6C, etc..), I think you have to take into account two important factors:
1 - Everyone has their own tastes, there are those who love the bass and those who prefer the transparency, those finds more the sound image and those dynamics.
2 - However, if you want to take into account all the factors together, and addressing the issue from an objective point of view, with the laboratory instrument as a judge, I want to explain one thing. Take for example D6C Vs DD9:
Each D6C, for example, has its fortunate or unfortunate combination of components. Each component has its own tolerances. Chris, you have two D6C. One of them is eccelllente, because it has a lucky combination of components, that make it excellent in Playback. The other D6C possesses an unfortunate combination of components which makes it mediocre in Playback, so much so that the DD9 kills this second D6C. Now if we carry out all UPGRADES I know, on your second D6C, he will improve, but not sure which would reach the other D6C excellent. May be less. The same can be done with the DD9, with the CR-7, with the Dragon, etc..
For example, I have, in my collection, eight D6C, and ten DD9. I selected a best D6C and a best DD9. Their sound was gorgeous. The D6C was slightly better than the DD9. I entered all the upgrades that I know on my best D6C, getting a Super D6C. It records at par and maybe even better than my Dragon. Its Playback is just lovely.
Then I took my best DD9 and I put all the upgrades I know, getting a Super DD9. While this first DD9 was slightly worse than my best D6C, what happened now? Super D6C Vs Super DD9? The Super DD9 has a playback slightly better than Super D6C, even using a tape recorded with the Super D6C. What would have happened if I had used another DD9 to transform into Super DD9? Surely it would be slightly worse than the Super D6C. So it all depends on the specific initial Deck. Because despite all the upgrades, you can not replace all the components of a Deck, otherwise it becomes another Deck.
So better the walkman on which you perform the upgrades, the better the final result. I believe that the DD9 is generally the best pure player, because I looked at how it is constructed and the quality of materials. This makes it potentially the best. But translating all this into practice is another matter, because it depends on many factors, as I explained. The same goes for the Dragon.

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 02:07

Hey dottor walkman I almost agree with everything you say, the bit I do not agree with is that “laboratory instrument as a judge”

 

There are plenty of things out there that measure well in the lab, but in the real world it’s a different story.

 

Example take any dcs components, dcs makes high-end digital products like CD players, DAC’s etc. They measure well and are superb players but in the real world they are cold and clinical to the ear, needless to say not for me but some people like it.

 

By the way my not so good D6C will be on the way to you after the Christmas rush.

 

By the way like your new avatar, is that the portable record player?

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 02:57

Hello Toocool4, I said the " laboratory tool " for understanding the objectivity of judgment. But my opinions are based only on my ears and even the ears of music lovers I know. The laboratory instrument (oscilloscope, etc..) Only serves to refine and repair, but the final touch you give it with your ears. So, this clear, we can say that they agree? I want to tell you that if your DD9 was better initially, after the upgrades, I'm sure it would have been equal to thy excellent D6C and perhaps even better. Unfortunately, every walkman consists of many electronic components, each with its own tolerances. We can act only on a part of them, otherwise the work becomes absurd and inconvenient.
You like my walkman turntable? The Sony PS-F9, new with original box. Was given to me by a my client. It was very happy for the work I had done on his compact disc player of high quality. It wanted to show his gratitude with this gift.

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 03:31

Hi dottor walkman

 

Okay. 

 

I remember those portable record players when they where new in the shops, never had one.

They looked cool, but I would not trust any of my precious records on it.

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 04:11

Hi Toocool4, 

 

I also thought the same thing before I have in my hands and test it. I have to say that not having tangential error, and having a proper weight reading, there is no danger to the disks. Of course it may not sound as good as a classic turntable. 

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 04:38

Hi dottor walkman, I think it’s a good show piece.

It is good the way you have it in the picture with a nice picture disc, it would be a talking point when people come round.

deliverance - 2012-12-20 05:12

They looked cool, but I would not trust any of my precious records on it.     good point tc no way i would either

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 05:23

Hello Toocool4, do you understand what is the artist and the music on this LP?

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 05:56

No dottor walkman I do not recognise the album or artist, who is it?

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 06:08

This is a LP bootleg of Pink Floyd. The Dark Side Of The Moon, live in theater 1972, a year before the official version in the studio, so very different.

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 06:22

Okay nice did not know that. What i the sound quality like?

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 06:30

I only listened once, many years ago. Considering that this is a bootleg remember that the quality was not bad. But the important thing is the historical document. I'm waiting for the right time to record it on a tape. I want to use my Technics SL-1210MK2 with Shure V15IV head. Then I see!

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 06:45

You can send it to me and I can record it for you then send it back, but being bootleg there is only so much I can dig out from the grooves.

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 07:00

Thank you very much, but it is a gift from my brother and a fond memory. For example, to take it and photograph it, I had a lot of attention. I can not part without it. I'm sorry.

toocool4 - 2012-12-20 07:13

No problem

retrodos - 2012-12-20 07:40

Thats bootleg has to be when he was Live at Rainbow Theatre UK London in February 1972, Pink Floyd-The Dark Side Of The Moon. Nice art work on LP!!

dottor.walkman - 2012-12-20 07:49

That's right, I think you've guessed it.

lapis - 2015-04-24 01:37

Akai was the first deck to use UDAR since the early 70's, not Nakamichi. Stationary heads are better than rotating heads but prone to crosstalk.